West Virginia High
School Wrestling

West Virginia Wrestling -- December 1997 Forum (Part Two)

Questions and comments welcome!

If you have some bit of West Virginia wrestling information to share, or a question or comment, here is the place.
Let's keep the discourse positive!
(Note: Flames, trash talk, and other items deemed inappropriate will not be posted).

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December 19, 1997
comments: In my opinion I think Creatine should be banned. If the wrestler needs to use something that could really hurt their body to lose weight they're not working hard enough in practice. You got to love wrestling but its not something to kill yourself over.
Editor's note: Lest I get in trouble with the Creatine manufacturers, let me point out that the above person has expressed his opinion, which he is perfectly entitled to do. Creatine products are widely advertised in wrestling periodicals, and an advertisement for such can be found on the USA Westling website
We have ingored inquiries from nutritional supplement manufacturers asking to advertise or be endorsed from our website, with offers of "discounts." However, WV-Mat neither endorses or condemns these products.

December 19, 1997
name: Nick Busick
email: bu118@ovnet.com
comments: I invite folks to check out ( http://www.ipf.com/fredhome.htm ). In light of recent posts concerning training and the deaths of three wrestlers, it can give a lot of interesting facts, links and knowledge.

December 18, 1997
From: matman
comments: I would just like to say Matt George is for real. I was at the Brooke Classic last weekend and He was REAL impresive. He dispatched Bonasso from F.S and Mull from J.M so for all you boys wrestling 119 watch out.

December 18, 1997
comments: The use of Creatine for performace enhancement is wide spread. The combination of severe cutting water weight and Creatine can be very dangerous. Creatine holds water on the muscle. Some wrestlers in College are combining rubber suit exercise with diuretics and laxitives.This is a dangerous combination. The depleation of K+ potasium can cause heart arrythmas. Ventriclar tachacardia unconverted can cause death. Please don't use "water pills." These will deplete K+ level and can be dangerous. Also heat exhaustion from dehydration and Rubber suits must be watched. Wrestler will always lose weight but it must be done slowly and by exercise and cutting out junk food. Electrolyte supplementation is also a good idea.

December 18, 1997
From: Ed
email: efields@weir.net
comments: Mr. Southwood is not totally correct. According to the WVSSAC handbook (rule 13.7) Students participating in a sport(s) in one season must have practiced 14 separate days, exclusive of the day of a contest, to be eligible to participate in a sport in the next season with the following exception: the student has continued to practice or participate in tournament play without an interruption of school days. The student must complete seven separate days of sport specific practice in a second sport. In conclusion, if those students began practicing on Dec. 8th they would have been eligible after 7 practices.

December 18, 1997
From: Homer Southwood
comments: I don't agree with the ruling on a wrestler not getting to wrestle until after 14 days of practice. Shouldn't there be an exemption for athletes coming from another sport whose season was extended due to playoffs? It would make sense that these athletes have already been conditioning for the past several months and should be ready to hit the mats as opposed to someone starting the season fresh. The North Marion-PHS dual was severely hurt by this ruling by not only being able to field full squads, but the spirit of competition suffered as well as revenue from the gate receipt and concession. If the WVSSAC can extend the football playoffs an extra week by expanding it from 8 teams to 16, couldn't they make some type of provision for the athletes whose wrestling season is delayed because of their interest to generate more revenue? Isn't our best interest in what is right for the athlete?
P.S. For Coach McMasters. I think South's JVs has had the best looking uniforms this season.
the Homer

December 18, 1997
From: The Editor
Congratulations to former North Marion standout and current Coach Jay Michael who started his coaching career at Buckeye Local (Ohio) with a debut dual meet victory over Beaver Local 41-30 last night. Reports are that Jay handled himself and his team like a seasoned veteran.

December 18, 1997
From: Wrestling Coach
comments: In the deaths of the three wrestlers the culprit is now suspected to be creatine. Creatine is a natural substance that is found in the human body. I have observed two situations where I suspected that creatine made two football players sick that I coached. They both were in good shape but when they started to use the Creatine they had shortness of breath and threw up constantly. As soon as they went off of the substance they were fine. I really don't know if it was the creatine but I will not let any football player or wrestler that I coach use this substance. There is no need for these types of substances in any sport anyway. If you can't train and compete naturally you should not compete. As for the media beginning to bash hot rooms for workouts it is not right. 90-100 degree rooms are no different than 90-100 degree days in summer with high humidity. In fact the rooms are probably better because there is no humidity. All wrestlers, coaches, parents and those who support wrestling need to take a stand and defend our sport when there is an opportunity.
Editor's Note: Excellent observations from the coach. I don't know if we will ever know the precise mechanism of death in these athletes. Tragic deaths during competition are reported in other sports - for example a few years ago didn't a college basketball player collapse during a game? I recall that it was determined that he had an undiagnosed heart problem (an arrhythmia) as the cause of death (incidentally, the kind of problem a physician would never be able to pick up on a standard pre-participation physical). Other causes of sudden and unexpected death during competition include anomolous orgin of the coronary arteries, again, a condition that nothing short of cardiac catheterization could have picked up. We may never know if these tragic deaths were specifically related to weight loss per se; however, one report indicated that one of the athletes expired in a rubber suit with a body temperature in excess of 105. This is ominous. Extreme exertion in a rubber suit raises the body temperature. If the body's cooling mechanism is impeded because of inability to vaporize the sweat because of the rubber suit, or perhaps extreme dehydration makes the body unable to sweat -- the result is unregulated rise in body temperature and disaster. This is a heat stroke, a potentially lethal event. Of course, rubber suits are outlawed in WV wrestling, for good reason. They can be potentially lethal. Nothing can outweigh the tragedy of three deaths. Having said this, whether the rubber suits, extreme weight cutting, or creatine contributed to the deaths may never be known: the problem for our sport is that there is a public perception that they did and this is bad for the sport. I see that Michigan has put it wrestling team on hiatus until after the holidays, and its future is in question. It doesn't take much of a reason for College administrators to drop our sport - Title IX has been the favorite whipping boy, and now will these events be used as another reason (excuse) to drop the sport? If we in the wrestling community don't do something to clean up these perceptions of our sport, someone else will do it for us.

December 18, 1997
comments: Nibert also wrestled 160 at the Coke tourney. He missed the first two rounds due to the ACT test that morning

December 18, 1997
From: super stud
comments: Oak Glen's recent result in the Brooke Classic is impressive. I don't pay any attention to the lower weights. This should be a fun year but tough.

December 17, 1997
From: Nick Busick
email: bu118@ovnet.com
comments: I took the time to read of the unfortunate deaths of three wrestlers the forum post referred to. Since my oldest is now battling to make the 189 lb class it interested me. As expected, I noticed the remarks about the possible use of steriods. Why is it, every time an athlete of an aggressive sport is injured, in trouble and/or dies, the first thing written is steriods? Look, steriods promote healing. They also promote any thing that is bad in your body. Including any type of damage from drugs like speed or recreational usuage. The fire alarm scare techniques used my the media alarm parents and ruin some kids mental preparation and promote fear for parents who have never competed. Here is a fact. Steriods give about a 10% strength increase only. For an athlete, it can make the muscle stronger than the tendons resulting in serious injury. Any type of drug use is stupid! Training mentally & physically is the key. It is a great loss when thinking of the wrestlers who passed on. God rest thier souls and be with thier family. I am getting long winded so I will stop. Besides that, what sport teaches disipline like wrestling!

December 17, 1997
From: Wrestling Coach
comments: For all wrestlers who think they can drop 10 or more pounds the day before competition go to www.cnnsi.com and read about the wrestler from Michigan. I believe it is okay to drop weight (10 or more pounds) if you have the weight to drop and it is done over a period of time. Already this year I have heard of wrestlers weighing 150 to 160 after football and dropping to 135-140 in about 4 weeks. At the same time I heard of a wrestler weighing 145 and wanted to drop to 130 in just a few days. That wrestler did not compete because he made himself ill. If your going to lose weight do it the correct way -- not the stupid way.

December 17, 1997
comments: Questions for the forum:
I noticed that Ward of Cabiel Midland was at 160 in the recent round robin what happened to Niebert? What is the strongest weight class in the state (AAA-AA/A) at this time?
Editor's note: I heard that the change was related to a wrestle off.

December 16, 1997
From: mat fan
comments: To: Jenny Sullivan....I was just curious to which team you are from. I think you do an outstanding job with your mat notes column. I wish more females would become more involved with the sport. Do you know any women coaches or officials? I would also like to know more about your wrestling background? You seem very knowledable about the sport. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on more women getting involved. Wrestling needs everybody. I know wrestling is big in West Virginia. I have been to the State Finals in Huntington and the atmosphere is unique with the spot-light focused on the wrestlers. Any way, great job Jenny and I would be interested in your response.

December 16, 1997
name: phonzo
comments: Dear super stud: hahaha if Oak Glen is not going to repeat then who is? One more question super stud: who is the top 103 pounder?

December 16, 1997
From: Wrestling fan
comments: Why did you delete the last part of my post about Oak Glen? It was not trash talk. I have seen far worse posted on this site. In fact if you knew ... (more stuff deleted).
Editor's note: Well, I guess its strictly a judgement call as to what goes and what stays. After the recent MEXICANO fiasco, perhaps I'm being a little extra conservative with the posts.
In answer to your question, the part of your post which was deleted
a) contained a not-too-subtle slam directed to a specific person, and ...
b) presumed to speak for others (Coaches). Generally in life you can speak for yourself and offer your own opinions, but you will often find yourself in hot water when you presume to speak for others.
Don't feel too bad though, the post from THE BEAR (four posts down) got some stuff deleted too ..... (smile).

December 16, 1997
From: wrestling fan
comments: Poor little Oak Glen? If My memory serves me correctly they were just reclassified a few years ago. You think that Oak Glen is accomplishing a lot by winning the AA when in reality they are border line AAA. The schools that should be commended for competing in AA-A are the small A schools who seem to get excellent wrestlers every year such as WIRT COUNTY. With a little more than 300 in four grades it is a huge accomplishment to get a full team out let alone compete (and compete well with schools that have 2200 students). I'm tired of hearing about Oak Glen ... (and some other stuff deleted).

December 16, 1997
From: Ken Chertow
email: kchertow@vicon.net
comments: Coach Chris Harmon was recently accepted to medical school. Congratulations to Chris! He is a true example of a scholar-athlete. Chris was an All-State wrestler at 125 pounds for Huntington Vinson in 1994. After completing 3 1/2 years of college at Marshall, Chris now has a 4.0 GPA as a chemistry major. He scored extremely high on his MCAT and is considering Marshall and WVU as well as some out of state medical schools. While maintaining his 4.0 GPA, Chris has been a full time assistant coach at the Olympian Wrestling School in Huntington for the past 3 seasons.He has been particularly instrumental in the development of two High School State Champions who trained regularly at the Olympian School, Steve Humphries (125) and John Creamer (130). Chris is now running the Olympian School and is helping Jared Walters, Jason Ward and many of the top young students in the gym. Once again, Congratulations to Chris for his efforts both in the classroom and on the mats. He is fine role model for all of us.

December 15, 1997
From: unknown
comments: Chirgwin of HHS was at 130 because he had to take the ACT's on Saturday morning. As far as I know he is planning on taking the step to 119. Thanks for you time.

December 15, 1997

December 15, 1997
comments: Does anyone have any idea where Gorby NM, Chirgwin HHS, and Thorpe HHS are going? I heard Gorby was going to 130 for the season, but am not sure. I heard Chirgwin was going to 119 and Thorpe 125 but at Roane County, Chirgwin was 125 and Thorpe was 130. This past weekend I heard that Chirgwin wrestled 130 and Thorpe wrestled 135. At the Parkersburg Dual, Gorby was 135. Where are these individuals going for the season?

December 15, 1997
comments: To super stud
Who do think will be the best at 103lbs this year in AA?

December 14, 1997
From: Nick Busick
email: bu118@ovnet.com
comments: Is there any particular time discussion in the chat area occurs? It is a great idea for this site. Waynesburg Pa had a youth takedown tournament this weekend. It was well run and we were out of there by 1:25PM. WOW what a break! I was able to make the semi & finals of the Weir Ryder Invitational. Congrats to Coach Randy Pryor and Coach Ray Pernell for promoting wrestling in Weirton.
Editor's note: Good comment about the "chat room." I must confess I am not too impressed with this feature. I have checked in the room frequently, and found someone to talk to only twice. I notice that InterMat has regularly scheduled times to chat, with guest chatters. I don't know if we can come up with a "guest star" or not.
This web site serves many purposes, not the least of which is a sort of "laboratory" for us to learn the ways of the Internet - to learn how it can be used, what works, what doesn't, and in general learn how we can use this new technology. Some aspects of this new technology work very well, some not so well. Not everyone who reads the page can use the chat, because Win95 and JAVA capable software is required.
In regards a regularly scheduled time for chat -- I don't know. What does everyone think? I usually poke my head in the room Sundays at 9:00 PM, under the name HaDok (hey, Doc). If anyone is there, I'll be happy to talk a spell.

December 14, 1997
From: Mike Staubs
comments: Just out of curiosity, how frequently do team score from across the state update? I have been seeing the latest scores posted as of Dec 06 for the last week. Others have said that they had updates dated Dec 10. Am I looking in the wrong place?
Editor's note: I try to post scores daily as I get them. Often the page is updated several times a day. Your problem may be with MountainNet's #$#@$%@ server upgrade. A week or so ago, they updated their poco server which stores this and all their business sites to an Apache system. This supposedly will give better service, but result has been that those using versions of Netscape earlier than Netscape 3.0, or other "old" browser software cannot load this page. I have complained to MountainNet, but to no avail. The page works fine on Netscape 3.0 or newer, or Microsoft Internet Explorer. I guess the word just needs to get out that everybody must upgrade thier browser software.

Incidentally, another problem may be that your browser is being contrary and insists on loading the page from the disk cache. Or, if you have older browser software, it cannot get the updated page off the server, and is loading the most recent page from your disk cache. Anytime you suspect you are getting an old page, try clicking on "reload" to try to force the page to reload from the server. If this doesn't work, try clearing the memory cache and disk cache (under Options, Network Preferences, Cache if using Netscape).

December 14, 1997
From: crazyaboutwrestling
comments: Good Luck Bearcats

December 14, 1997
comments: North Marion lineup for Holiday Quad with Cabell, Preston, Hoover.
103 Greg White
112 Brian Floyd
119 Josh Starsick
125 Billy Gatian
130 Adam Gorby
135 T.J. Phillips
140 John Ramsey
145 Micah Kiger
152 Bobby Hawkinberry
160 Ryan Besedich
171 T.J. King
189 Jason Conaway
215 Scott Moore
275 Jim Gaines

December 12, 1997
From: super stud
comments: Since they got to the top everyone is gunning for them. And they did good getting there but the challenge is to stay on top and personally I think that they can't do it.

December 12, 1997
From: City Clerk
comments: To ALL BEARCAT WRESTLERS: Good luck this season and keep the grades up. It's okay to be the best kept secret! Remember other teams don't fear you, but they'll learn to respect you! Check the City Clerk's window weekly for your stats...PIN TO WIN!! OR IF YOU CAN'T PIN 'EM, POINT 'EM!!! Watch out 152, your momma's watchin.

December 11, 1997
From: Observationist
email: bigd@access.mountain.net
comments: A couple people have email me wanting to know the PETERSBURG VIKING WRESTLING LINE UP

     WT  NAME         GRADE                           RECORD
     103 ROGER BORROR 10TH     
     125 WES DEADRICK (STATE QUALIFIER) 12TH          21-18
     130 JARED BENNETT (STATE QUALIFIER) 12TH         19-25
     145 MORGAN SISK (4TH PLACE STATES) 12TH          33-9
     152 KENT MCBRIDE (2X STATE QUALIFIER) 12TH       5-4
     160 JOHN COOK 12TH                               0-15
     171 RYAN DINGESS 11TH
     189 DAN LAHMAN (STATE QUALIFIER) 11TH            28-12
     215 JAKE SPICER (2X STATE QUALIFIER) 12TH        27-15

The Vikings bring both experience and age to the mat this year. Look for them to be a surpising upset team this year, maybe break the top ten. Send your comments to me.

December 11, 1997
From: kenshield
comments: to super stud. what makes you think Oak Glen will not win states this year?

December 11, 1997
From: Jim LeMaster
comments: I just wanted to let all of you know that the messages from Mexicano are bogus. Coach Sparks has shall we say requested that his boys do no trash talking. I am aquainted with the real Mexicano and have been assured that these posts are not his. I would think that if someone was crass enough to try to fake stuff on the forum they could at least get the weight class right! Unless the real Mexicano has suddenly undergone a metamorphosis, he will not ever be at the class referred to in these bogus posts. In addition, the real Mexicano can spell as well as wrestle. Who ever is out there you are fooling no one and ruining the forum for those who wish to use it for the purpose it was intended to serve. For the good of all concerned, let's give up the fake posts. Oh, and by the way, the caps lock key sorta gives your identity away . . . Thanks to all who are posting the scores, updates, etc. I will try to post a summary from the McKinley Jr High tourney this weekend. It has 20+ teams and should clear the muddy waters a bit before the WSAZ.
Editor's note: I must say I have been scratching my head quite a bit over our mysterious MEXICAN0 friend, and I suppose I have been duped. I debated whether or not to post some of his epistles. I do not post everything that comes in. Some posts get edited. Some warrant only the delete key. In this case I guessed that MEXICANO was a member of the Midland team or organization, because of previous posts from MEXICANO which had some "inside info" on the team (for instance Nov 14, concerning who from Midland moved from out of state) and the Dec 2 post when MEXICANO correctly named Frazier as the wrestler at 130 for the CM/PS match. I figured only someone from Midland would know that, as the season had not even started. I also figured that this talk would benefit nobody but Midland's opponents, and would harm nobody but Midland, (if someone wants to hang themself I suppose that is their option), and that if they were bogus posts someone would tip me off. Well, I consider myself tipped off. I am still on the learning curve here, and if my inclusion of the MEXICANO posts has caused grief to somenone, my sincere apologies.

December 10, 1997
From: half nelson
comments: Super Stud, I like your spunk, but one man does not a team make. Oak Glen has one of their best teams ever. They return 13 starters and would be a factor in AAA this year. Wirt County has some tremendous talent, but I don't know if they are as deep as Oak Glen. Good luck Super Stud, but don't be too disappointed if Oak Glen repeats.

December 10, 1997
From: super stud
comments: I dont think Oak Glen is going to win again .... because I'm waiting ....

December 10, 1997
From: Nick Busick
email: bu118@ovnet.com
comments: Weir Middle School lost their wrestling coach today after a prolonged illness. Coach Koontz consistently worked to make sure the kids in middle school were introduced to the sport we love so much. In particular the kids who did not have the chance to wrestle in a youth organization. His good intentions, good nature and caring attitude will me missed and is a great loss to the community.

December 10, 1997
From: NM fan
comments: Here is North Marion's Line-up for the Parkersburg match:
WT Name GR
103 Greg White 11
112 Brian Floyd 11
119 Josh Starsick 12
125 Billy Gatian 10
130 Adam Gorby 12
135 T.J. Phillips 11
140 Joey Commodore 11
145 John Ramsey 11
152 Ryan Besedich 12
160 David Westfall ?
171 Bobby Hawkinberry 11
189 T.J. King 11
215 Randy Stout 12
275 Jim Gaines 10

Starters out from football:
135 Mike Shearer 12
160 Micah Kiger 12
189 Jason Conaway 12
215 Scott Moore 12

Mike Shearer is out indefinitely with a knee injury. Parkersburg will bring only 7 wrestlers to the match.

December 10, 1997
comments: To:D.Satterfield
I have to agree with you that Parkersburg has a pretty good team, and good individuals. Regarding some of the individuals you mentioned:
First, Marty Collins - didn't he get teched by Eric Frazier of Cabell Midland? You said something about him having his appendix out seven days before the state tournament....Isn't regionals about five days before the state tournament? How could he have qualified for states?
Another Individual you mentioned, Matt George - who is he? Did he wrestle last year? If so, what weight? What accomplishments did he have? Who did he beat? How did he fare against Golden, Collins, or Newberry?

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Updated December 9, 1997