West Virginia High
School Wrestling

West Virginia Wrestling -- February 2000 Forum (Part One)

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February 2, 2000
comments: Coaches Poll's ?? Does anyone look at the results ? Gee I thought Doc did a great job of allowing every team to publish their results so everyone will know who is beating who. By the Polls you sure couldn't tell. Many wrestlers ranked WAY below wrestlers they have just beaten and DOMINATED.
Oh well guess States will be the final proving ground for this one.

February 2, 2000
comments: Has anyone heard the old phrase "If it ain't broke don't Fix it". Well that is what people need to think before they start coming up with these wild idea. It working fine just now leave it alone.

February 2, 2000
From: EP
comments: To Hedgesville Fan your comments about HH having the CVAL match won when they stepped on the Mat. Curious your coach wasn't thinking that way. The weight move by Jefferson Coach was done to win the match not anyones single record. Last I checked the winner in a Dual was a Team not a single wrestler. The wrestlers who moved up a weight class all won just not enough to close the gap from HH strong lower weights. HH is a Great team but not enough to beat South. Good Luck guys.

February 2, 2000
From: joe guttmann
email: guttman1@marshall.edu
comments: Congrats to the Hedgesville Eagles for a very solid season. Does anyone know who are the other teams participating in the Hedgesville and Frankfort Quads?

February 2, 2000

February 2, 2000
From: Northern Garrett Fan
comments: This comment is for the Hedgesville fan who wrote last week that Hedgesville would be better than Northern if they wrestled now. But before I start I do not mean any disrespect to the Hedgesville team you are very good 103 112 119 125 130 140 145 and others. I have watched you wrestle twice this year and respect your team very much.
Hedgesville 44 Martinsburg 31
Northern Garrett 64 Martinsburg 3

Hedgesville 62 Fort Hill 15
Northern Garrett 77 Fort Hill 0

Northern Garrett is tough the whole way through the lineup.

February 2, 2000
From: Robert Hickman
email: SHickman@aol.com
comments: I agree 100% with Mr. Easter. Let the JV kids have a shot. Few would produce but America is about opportunity. Our Jr. Hi. conference lets all wrestlers participate in the conference tournament but only one member from each team may score team points. The reserve may place but will not earn team points. Almost every year a reserve guy places. What are we afraid of? Our society is thrilled when a wild card team (Tenn. Titans) makes the Super Bowl! Give the hard working kids a chance. It's a great life lesson.

February 2, 2000
From: mc
email: curreyml@wirefire.com
comments: Food for thought. Appreciate any responses.
All of this talk about taking jv or 5th or 6th place finishers to the state tournament had me thinking. Let me throw out a few thoughts.
1. Given that there are only 39 teams listed in A/AA and AAA why not do away with regionals all together and have a true state tournament. Although I say this half-jokingly the folks in Huntington demonstrated at the WSAZ tournament that they could host 37 high schools fielding 60 teams with jvs and 32 junior high/middle/9th teams fielding 72 teams during a two day tournament. Although it should be an honor to qualify for states most regionals have many weight classes that are not full which makes it somewhat easier to qualify for states. Despite this the best kids are still the ones who place at states.
2. Maybe we should have only one state tournament and no divisions. I'm not going to argue A/AA/AAA competion but the best competion would be found if all divisions were combined. Single A schools have to compete against AA right now. Why not have everyone compete against one another? Although team scores are kept it is still an individual sport. I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on the subject (by the way I was a AA wreslter).

February 2, 2000
comments: All this talk of Jv wrestles being able to having a chance to wrestle in state isn't a very good idea. The same people who say it is a good idea know will be the same wanting to get ride of it if they every put it into effect. Because you will get a team like South that will place 4 or 3 kids in a weight class. Then those people who wanted Jv wrestlers with the oportuinty will say that its unfair to the kids who work hard to start for there teams. If a Jv wrestler wants to start he could either drop to a weight class where he could start or Work harder in the off season where he will be better prepaired to crack the line up.

February 2, 2000
comments: The idea of allowing JV wrestle to paricipate is a terible idea. It is so cause u have schools like Oak Glen how have 40 to 50 wrestlers on there team. Then u have school such as Cameron who are barely able to fill a team a year. It wouldnt give others a chance to particapate if u have teams flood a weight class with 4 or 5 kids in regionals. Then having 3 of them qualify for state. That would be an injustice to all the teams every where in the state that find it had just to get by with such low numbers.

February 2, 2000
From: Coach X Wrestler
comments: Let the JV into the states? Just another effect of how our society is training people. "Its okay Johnny if you dont win a match all year cause we are still going to let you wrestle in the region and you just might qualify." Let everyone in it will be great. Oh there may be a couple of kids do well but very few. Please think this through. Train a kid that he can get things handed to him and he becomes a shmoozer.

I really dont think it is a good idea to try to let JV wrestlers in the regions. There are very few cases where it would work. I think it is wrong to tell your kids "dont worry about pushing yourself during the year to become the starter because at the end you have just as much opportunity to make it to states as if you were a starter." It really waters down the competitive spirt in my opinion.

February 2, 2000
From: 5th place
If we are going to let JV wrestlers in the regionals to qualify for the states, then what about some regions where the 5th or 6th place guy at some weight class could have qualified for states if he were only in another region? I have seen many cases where varsity kids stay home but somebody from another region they beat goes to the states because they qualify from another region. That's not fair either. If we are going to open it up to JV wrestlers, then we should also open the state tournament up to 5th and 6th place finishers from each region. Maybe even 7th and 8th place finishers.

February 2, 2000
From: DS
comments: I agree with the concept of allowing extras or JVs to wrestle at the regionals. For the most part teams can space out their good wrestlers so that there is not two good wrestlers in the same weight class but sometimes that is impossible to do. This is especially true with heavyweights who can't change weight classes. Besides if you are good enough to place in your region then you deserve to go to the states.

February 2, 2000
comments: In regards to Mr. Easters comments I totally agree. A few years ago didn't J.C. Chirgwin wrestle for the HHS JV team then move up at the end of the season to place 6th. Also wasn't there a JV wrestler from Oak Glen who moved up at the end of the season who was state runner up? People should think about that.

February 2, 2000
From: Calhoun Fan (girl)
comments: Congratultions once again to the Calhoun County wrestling team. They did a great job at Clay. All the hard work and practice has really been paying off this year. Some said we would never make it this far but thanks to our team our school now has something to be proud of.

February 2, 2000
From: Panhandle Parent
comments: I am interested on coaches viewpoints on tournament and regional seedings. Winners Choice and our region allow coaches to forgo a seed and take a different seed to better their position to place. I feel this is wrong and goes against the true purpose of seeding. Take your seed or be put in the draw. I know of no other region in any state that does this. Is it done that way at states? You wrestle all year to position yourself for a seed you have earned. I think the practice is wrong and needs to be changed.
Please place in forum

February 2, 2000
comments: Looks like Matt Easter is the real deal but im still holding oon to him and dellligattti meeting in the state champioship and deligatti pulling it out.

February 2, 2000
From: A wrestling fan of the Mayles since pee-wee
comments: To Joey and Blaine In my opinion you two guys are two of the best wrestlers in the state. I can remember you guys from way back. Don't let the polls bother you they're nothing but words on paper. The polls can always be proven wrong. If there ever was a chance of them being wrong I think it was this year about you guys. I'm not even from your area but I know my sons glad Blaine out grew him in pee-wee they were the same size. We came up and wrestled you guys earlier this year and your whole team is totally awesome. keep up the good work Buckannon-Upshur I wish you the best at the states.

February 1, 2000
From: Charles Easter
comments: The forum has been very interesting so far. I would like to throw out an idea for discussion.
Here are some reasons to support this idea:
1. he might be the second best wrestler in the region or state.
2. on the state final day anyone can win.
3. he might have worked his hardest and not be able to beat a teammate for the starting spot year after year.
4.his coach may not allow or use a fair wrestle-off system.
5.all wrestlers should have a chance to go to STATES.
6.it could encourage him to finish out the year.
7.it might increase the number of participants on each team during the season.
8.he might realize that off-season training does help.
9.he could be a state place winner last year and not a starter this year
10.a chain is only strongest as its weakest link the true strength of a team is not the cream of the crop but how deep the roots grow.

February 1, 2000
From: south
email: to former south fan
comments: i just want to know why you are choosing to be a cabel midland fan instead of a south fan because we have already beat them our first match of the season. i mean dont get me wrong if you want to be like that its fine but i was just wondering why?
Editor's note: Well, actually Former Fan did outline his reasons for changing allegiance in his initial post, and said reasons were edited out. I know you guys don't like it when your posts get sliced up. Someone pointed out to me an unmoderated forum from an adjoining state. I thought about putting a link to that forum to demonstrate what happens to unmoderated forums. However, the content of that particular forum is so crass and so far down in the gutter that I don't even want a link to it from here.

February 1, 2000
From: South Girl
email: to Hedgesville fan
comments: On behalf of Bosley and Daggett...Bosley did a very good job at Winner's Choice and deserved his first place trophy and Bosley will be a state champion this year. As for Daggett i dont remember Moats becoming unconsious...where did that come from i mean Moats is a very good wrestler and I give him credit but i am just saying i dont remember him almost becoming unconsious

February 1, 2000
comments: I would like to congratulate Braxton County High School wrestling team on their tremendous season. The guys work there butt off in practice and it pays off. Congratulations guys. Keep up the good work and the undefeated season!!!

February 1, 2000
From: Mitchell-Ozone
comments: I would like to wish all the Buckhannon Upshur wrestlers the very best of luck on the upcoming NCAC's. I know they will face some good competition and may not come out on top as a team but i feel they will have some outstanding individual performances by Trent Casto Joey Mayle Andy Travise and Billy Baisden. They are outstanding wrestlers as well as young men and i know they will represent Upshur County well.

February 1, 2000
From: WVAA
email: wv_aa@hotmail.com
comments: I received one compliant today: telling me that my voting Polls were full of cream puffs well I don't hardly consider either Justice of Barxton or Hall of Clay Battelle "cream puffs" but he did. If you would like to read his toughtful message it is on my message board along with his email address. Anyway just for him I updated my voting polls so now they include the individuals on the Coaches Poll not my poll (because according to this individual I dont know what Im talking about) However in updating the polls I had to wipe out all the votes. So please stop by and vote again. The individuals on the polls WILL NOT be changed again. So this voting will be final. Everything else will be updated as usual on Thursday evening.

February 1, 2000
From: who cares
comments: i think that the 140 aa/a class is about even...
on any given day one of the top four can beat the other...
it all depends on who's ready to go at the states...
thats when everything else is threw out...
records mean nothing there...
its a mix of preperation and having a good day...
as for wood and zyla...
they're dead even at 2 matches a peice....
ranking one ahead of the other isn't fair....
just wait for the states to

February 1, 2000
comments: Hayhurst did not wrestle at WV-Ohio duals at Ravenswood.

February 1, 2000
comments: Did Hayhurst wrestle in the Ohio WV duals? If so who won out of him and Westbrooke. Will full match scores ever be posted on the Ohio Wv duals?

February 1, 2000
comments: East fairmont is a team on the rise and are giong to suprise everyone in the late season. With nearly everyone back from ayear ago and most coming back next year including Miller (171) sternthal(189) and noechel(160). Next season looks 2X as right and they will be among the states elite next year

February 1, 2000
comments: What was wrong with Matt Jones last weekend?

February 1, 2000
From: Hedgesville Fan
comments: Haven't been able to get to a computer for couple weeks so I need to get caught up. First congrats to Hedgesville on its performance at Winners Choice Rebel Invitational and CVAL. Eagles won Rebel and CVAL. Also congrats to Moats OW of Winners Choice and Regalbuto OW of Rebel both are very deserving. As to Winners Choice I have to give Parkersburg South its due they are a very strong team. Personally I don't like the attitudes of the Parkersburg fans but the kids sure can wrestle. To the south fan who put the comment on here about Dagget beating the man who beat Moats by 2. Where do you get your info Moats is UNDEFEATED no one has beat him this year. As for Daggett anyone who didn't watch the match early on in the 1st period Daggett went diving at Moats with the top of his head and almost knocked Moats out. Moats came back to the match woozy and barely conscious and scored a tech fall. Moats will have to be completely unconcious next time.

Also as far as Bosley goes as a former referee a no-takedown call saved Bosley. And as for comments that its a one person race at 135 if I'm not mistaken Bosley was ranked #1 in the state and got upset in the semis. Lets go Joey Mayle states will be your turn.

Also I don't care for the way regionals are being run in this state who is the moron that can't count that decided the teams in each region. Region 2 has 12 teams Region 1 has 7? Its much easier to win states when you have a weak little region that allows you to qualify your whole team. Yes park south has a very good team but again you have to acknowledge that you do have an unfair advantage that other teams don't. Fairmont Sr. and Hedgesville probably won't qualify there whole teams again because our region is almost twice as many teams and stronger as well. Lets realign the regions and since obviously no one in this state is able to get it right lets bring in someone from out of state that knows nothing about wrestling give them a map of the AAA schools in WV and let them even the regions out based on location. Seems like the most objective fairest and smartest thing to do. But then again what do objectivety and impartiality have to do with these high school kids bleeding and sweating for a chance at states?

These might be kind of strong statements but this problem has been going on for years with no one having the guts hearts or maybe brains to do anything about it. Anyway on to other things. Congrats to hedgesville on its cval championship. The championship really came down to two teams the eagles and jefferson. And did anyone see that match between Regalbuto #1 in the state and Mcdonald #3 in the state? Of course you didn't why because Mcdonald wrestled another weight class. That dual was over before the kids stepped on the mat.

This is a sport that is hurting for attention. One of the ways to get more turn outs for matches and more interest is to have better competion. What I mean is that when people travel to a school anticipating a matchup of state ranked opponents and then don't get there monies worth are they going to keep coming back of course not. The only time we have moved our lineup is when someone doesn't make weight or is injured. Yes some of that has to do with lack of depth but even so we thrive on competition. Also per cval congrats to Justin Snyder and John Dunham both were nursing bad injuries but sucked it up for the one dual against Jefferson they gave up decisions instead of getting pinned and made the difference. Thats heart not running but going out there on the mat hurt with little chance of being able to win but taking one for the team. Anyway congrats eagles and good luck with your next quad.

Almost forgot I heard that...(sorry, unsubstantiated rumors from an anonymous poster making reference to specific people won't make it here, but I did find your observation interesting (smile))...

February 1, 2000
comments: Butler didn't come out of no where.... he came out of Frankfort! He was there last year... he's a junior this year. He was in a hard weight class last year and he's improved a lot in the last year. He's knocked of some good people.... and I think he'll suprise even more people in the next month.

February 1, 2000
comments: Butler did not knock off Hart and Stotler. He defeated Hart and lost to Stotler but Stotler lost to Hart in OT. Based on critera Butler got first. I believe he is a junior and has really improved over last year.

February 1, 2000

February 1, 2000
comments: To whoever Ohio wrestler is: Face the facts in front of you that at Ravenswood the best teams were from West Virginia and not Ohio. i am tired of hearing how tough and how hard it is to wrestle in Ohio. I was at a camp this summer and a bunch of guys claiming to be state qualifiers were whipped up on on a regular basis. Ohio does have its powerhouses as does WV. But WV can compete with Ohio and defeat Ohio (at Ravenswood) any day.

February 1, 2000
comments: Yes anything can happen from here to states. as well as at states upsets can happen. if a decent wrestler is having a good day and a great wrestler is having a great day then an upset could be in the making. some wrestlers rise to the ocassion. Glad to see chase coleman is doing welll in ohio. Last but not least Northern Garrett MD is a single A school and gave fairmont senior a AAA school a run for their money. think about it now lets see wv teams face teams from MD in their own school classifications.

February 1, 2000
From: anonymous fan
comments: I think Joel Zyla should be ranked ahead of Ben Wood.

February 1, 2000
From: JJ
comments: Ash Wenmoth is a good wrestler but Jimmy Johnson can beat him at states!!!!

February 1, 2000
comments: Would somebody please name the schools that will be at the MSAC tournament on Saturday. They all aren't listed on the schedule page.
Check the Conference Page - I believe the MSAC list here is accurate. Parkersburg South and Roane County are not members of the MSAC this year...

February 1, 2000
From: Jenny Sullivan
comments: Just a quick note about comparing the coaches' polls to the state tournament. In the March 12 1999 edition of Mat Lines there is a paragraph related to this very subject.

February 1, 2000
comments: Who is Butler of Frankfort? Did he wrestle last year? IS he a freshman? I can't imagine a freshman knocking off hart and Stotler? If he's not a freshman where was he at states last year. He has come out of nowhere.

February 1, 2000
From: Fan
comments: Congratulations to the Cammack Middle School Wrestling team. They put on a great show in their County Tournament. They had 10 out of 15 weight classes with guys in the finals.

February 1, 2000
From: Garrett Co. Fan
comments: WV is as good as MD teams down state that do not think WV has strong wrestling. I have seen both Hedgesville and Fairmont Sr. this year and they are strong. You are right about the Berkeley Tourn. Northern Garrett had only 3 matches under their belt and WV teams had 8-10 by that point. At present Northern has 20 and to say it would be different with Hedgesville is a mistake. I'm sure your boys are wrestling better but so are ours Northern Garrett would win with a much more solid lineup the whole way through.

February 1, 2000
comments: What are the placement points for a tounrment that places 6 wrestlers?
4 places score 14-10-7-4
6 places score 16-12-9-7-5-3
8 places score 16-12-9-7-5-3-2-1

February 1, 2000
From: Joey Mayle
email: Broadway8up@aol.com
comments: First of all I just wanted to take time to thank the person who complimented me on my sportsmanship I appreciate it. I also want to tell everyone back home @ Hedgesville good luck at regionals and states. Finally I want to congratulate my team on a good year so far keep up the good work. Regionals are just around the corner.

February 1, 2000
From: The Editor
Information overload department
Someone suggested checking the Coaches Polls from the past 2 years to see how they compared with the final state tournament outcome. I got to looking, and lo and behold the coaches polls from the past 3 years are still sitting on the server, unlinked. Never did get around to taking them off. Soooo, if anyone is interested, here are links to past Coaches Polls
AA/A 1997, 1998, 1999
AAA 1997, 1998, 1999

February 1, 2000
From: Chase Coleman
email: speedy_28@excite.com
comments: I am Chase Coleman. For those wondering I did not get killed in a car accident nor did I move to Kansas. I have moved to Ohio and have a current record of 28 and 8 and have hopes of competing in the state tournament here in Ohio. I wish you all the best of luck this season.

February 1, 2000
comments: Chase Coleman who wrestled for Frankfort last year is alive and well wrestling in Ohio. The family moved ------- don't you hate these stupid rumors!

February 1, 2000
From: Panhandle Fan
comments: In response to the Northern Garrett Fan. At Berkeley Springs Northern Garrett did a very good job against the West virginia teams. The byes that Hedgesville had drawn in the first round hurt against their team points and the way seeding went in some of the brackets made it tough for them in wrestle backs especially for some of the more inexperienced Eagles. That was early in the year and both Northern Garrett and the West Virginia teams were evenly matched. I went to high school in Maryland and wrestled in at a Maryland High School. The problem with Maryland is the lack of matches that are wrestled during the year. Right now at this point in the season most of your starting healthy varsity wrestlers from West Virginia have 30-35 matches under thier belt. And they do this every year. Maryland wrestlers are lucky if they have 15 by now or at least most do. Northern Garret had 3 Champions at Berkeley Springs and Hedgesville had 4. One exciting match was Friday night at Berkeley Springs in the 171 lb. weight class when the Eagles Everhart beat Norhtern Garrett's Wampler 2-1. I believe if the Eagles and Northern Garrett were to meet now head to head it would be a different story with Hedgesville coming out on top.

February 1, 2000
comments: What happened to Kuykendall of Frankfort? I saw he was undefeated for a long period of time then he didn't wrestle at the Viking Smash. ALso his name was left off the coaches poll entirely was that an error or intentional.
Also whatever happened to Chase Coleman of Frankfort he had close matches with Jimmy Johnson and Nathan Miller. Is it true he was kiiled in a car accident? Or I alos heard he moved to Kansas? What happened?

February 1, 2000
comments: at 135 coaches have 2 wrestlers from OG is one of them Supposed to be Childers from St Mary's who isn't listed?

February 1, 2000
From: Coach Moyers
email: jemoe@access.mountain.net
comments: Scores from the PHS Viking Smash were incorrectly submitted by someone other than (PHS Stats) Corrected winners list on score page
Editor's note: Apologies for the incorrect posting, and many thanks for straightening us out...

February 1, 2000
comments: to the person who was wondering how coaches picked individuals in the polls go back to the last 2 years and see how accurate they were compared to the states

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