M.I.A. Where are they

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Bearhugger
Posts: 2956
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:14 am

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby Bearhugger » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:06 pm

mscoach64 wrote:
mike.carman wrote:
mscoach64 wrote:I've met a few since I am a high school head football coach. I do not know one of them who try to get their kids to not wrestle or play other sports. a kid gets 4 years to be in high school and play sports and then never again. I think that maybe you are using your 2 examples to make generalized statements. I can promise you that my program and school would never allow that to happen. I hope they play basketball, wrestle, baseball, run track, etc. Works more muscle groups.

on the flip side of the argument, there are an awful lot of wrestlers who don't play football.


I can personally name quite a few that outwardly encourage their players to participate in other sports and then make it impossible to do so and earn a starting spot on their squad. In essence they schedule "volunteer" workouts that are essentially mandatory for their players to play in the fall. If the players do not attend they don't play and these workouts conflict with other sports practices. Puts the kids in a bad position.
i think everyone has different experiences. But, sometimes kids like to blame other coaches and use this type of thing as an excuse to quit whatever sport. I know that i've had some kids say that kind of thing about me before. However, it doesn't hold a lot of weight especially since my boy wrestles. I had 2 football players to quit wrestling last year so they could lift for football. I would not allow them to lift in our weight room until wrestling season was over or until they speak with the wrestling coach face to face because i felt it was more important to teach that once you have committed to a team, then its vital that you stick with it.

Like i said, i want all of my lineman and lb's to wrestle and my skill kids to play basketball. I have a large circle of friends who are also head football coaches and i know that many feel the same way i do. I know the Poca HC went around recruiting his players to wrestle just so they could have a team. I know that MTrail HC does the same. Now, i am sure there are coaches out there in all sports who'd rather the kids play only their sport. But, those are the coaches that do not have the best interest of the kid in mind. Anything that keeps a kid active, teaches competition, hard work, dedication, does periodic grade checks, and occupies their time is a thing that keeps kids out of trouble, off drugs, and on the right path.

So, who is gonna answer my question that i posed.......why are there so many wrestlers who do not play other sports?


I am sure there are quite a few reasons. Here are just a few:

1. Many wrestlers are smaller in size. Football might not be a wise choice.

2. Some wrestlers stay busy competing in off season tournaments. There are no off season football games for teams to go compete in.
Bringing balance to the forum, one post at a time.

Frank
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:02 am

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby Frank » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:29 pm

Thristen Fox from Keyser, anyone have any new on this wrestler. Solid kid

Bucktail
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:51 am

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby Bucktail » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:54 pm

mike.carman wrote:
mscoach64 wrote:
mike.carman wrote:
I can personally name quite a few that outwardly encourage their players to participate in other sports and then make it impossible to do so and earn a starting spot on their squad. In essence they schedule "volunteer" workouts that are essentially mandatory for their players to play in the fall. If the players do not attend they don't play and these workouts conflict with other sports practices. Puts the kids in a bad position.
i think everyone has different experiences. But, sometimes kids like to blame other coaches and use this type of thing as an excuse to quit whatever sport. I know that i've had some kids say that kind of thing about me before. However, it doesn't hold a lot of weight especially since my boy wrestles. I had 2 football players to quit wrestling last year so they could lift for football. I would not allow them to lift in our weight room until wrestling season was over or until they speak with the wrestling coach face to face because i felt it was more important to teach that once you have committed to a team, then its vital that you stick with it.

Like i said, i want all of my lineman and lb's to wrestle and my skill kids to play basketball. I have a large circle of friends who are also head football coaches and i know that many feel the same way i do. I know the Poca HC went around recruiting his players to wrestle just so they could have a team. I know that MTrail HC does the same. Now, i am sure there are coaches out there in all sports who'd rather the kids play only their sport. But, those are the coaches that do not have the best interest of the kid in mind. Anything that keeps a kid active, teaches competition, hard work, dedication, does periodic grade checks, and occupies their time is a thing that keeps kids out of trouble, off drugs, and on the right path.

So, who is gonna answer my question that i posed.......why are there so many wrestlers who do not play other sports?


No argument there. I have just personally witnessed this happen myself. I have also seen the most prominent HS football programs in the country make it mandatory for some of their football players to wrestle even if they never wrestle a varsity match(BTW these programs are NOT in WV). Furthermore, Urban Meyer recruits multi-sport athletes. He tends to steer clear of single sport athletes. One of the most successful college coaches of all time.


I am the defensive and offensive line coach at University High School and I encourage my linemen to wrestle. Our 170, Hayden Starcher was all-state in football and I personally believe that his foundation in wrestling helped him to build a better football skillset. 170 is slightly undersized for a defensive end, but his technique, especially in regards to tackling, was second to none. In addition, our 220, Ben Gribble, in his first year of wrestling, is an outstanding football player. He also bumped up to heavyweight in University's Dual with Wheeling Park for 3rd at the Wheeling Park Duals and earned an 8-0 decision. The team score entering that match was 32-31 Park....The football player got it done. UHS wins 35-32. I can't wait to see what he does on the gridiron in the fall.

J. Zeiders

mike.carman
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:24 pm
Location: Marshall County

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby mike.carman » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:55 pm

Bucktail wrote:
mike.carman wrote:
mscoach64 wrote:i think everyone has different experiences. But, sometimes kids like to blame other coaches and use this type of thing as an excuse to quit whatever sport. I know that i've had some kids say that kind of thing about me before. However, it doesn't hold a lot of weight especially since my boy wrestles. I had 2 football players to quit wrestling last year so they could lift for football. I would not allow them to lift in our weight room until wrestling season was over or until they speak with the wrestling coach face to face because i felt it was more important to teach that once you have committed to a team, then its vital that you stick with it.

Like i said, i want all of my lineman and lb's to wrestle and my skill kids to play basketball. I have a large circle of friends who are also head football coaches and i know that many feel the same way i do. I know the Poca HC went around recruiting his players to wrestle just so they could have a team. I know that MTrail HC does the same. Now, i am sure there are coaches out there in all sports who'd rather the kids play only their sport. But, those are the coaches that do not have the best interest of the kid in mind. Anything that keeps a kid active, teaches competition, hard work, dedication, does periodic grade checks, and occupies their time is a thing that keeps kids out of trouble, off drugs, and on the right path.

So, who is gonna answer my question that i posed.......why are there so many wrestlers who do not play other sports?


No argument there. I have just personally witnessed this happen myself. I have also seen the most prominent HS football programs in the country make it mandatory for some of their football players to wrestle even if they never wrestle a varsity match(BTW these programs are NOT in WV). Furthermore, Urban Meyer recruits multi-sport athletes. He tends to steer clear of single sport athletes. One of the most successful college coaches of all time.


I am the defensive and offensive line coach at University High School and I encourage my linemen to wrestle. Our 170, Hayden Starcher was all-state in football and I personally believe that his foundation in wrestling helped him to build a better football skillset. 170 is slightly undersized for a defensive end, but his technique, especially in regards to tackling, was second to none. In addition, our 220, Ben Gribble, in his first year of wrestling, is an outstanding football player. He also bumped up to heavyweight in University's Dual with Wheeling Park for 3rd at the Wheeling Park Duals and earned an 8-0 decision. The team score entering that match was 32-31 Park....The football player got it done. UHS wins 35-32. I can't wait to see what he does on the gridiron in the fall.

J. Zeiders


I am certainly glad you promote your kids to wrestle. All I am saying is that is not the standard for the majority in our area. And I was at the Park Duals watching your match with WP. UHS has a great Football program and a great wrestling program. I am sure they are benefitting from each other. Football and Wrestling should be synonymous not exclusive. So again, I don't disagree with anything you are saying.

Bucktail
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:51 am

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby Bucktail » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:01 pm

mike.carman wrote:
Bucktail wrote:
mike.carman wrote:
No argument there. I have just personally witnessed this happen myself. I have also seen the most prominent HS football programs in the country make it mandatory for some of their football players to wrestle even if they never wrestle a varsity match(BTW these programs are NOT in WV). Furthermore, Urban Meyer recruits multi-sport athletes. He tends to steer clear of single sport athletes. One of the most successful college coaches of all time.


I am the defensive and offensive line coach at University High School and I encourage my linemen to wrestle. Our 170, Hayden Starcher was all-state in football and I personally believe that his foundation in wrestling helped him to build a better football skillset. 170 is slightly undersized for a defensive end, but his technique, especially in regards to tackling, was second to none. In addition, our 220, Ben Gribble, in his first year of wrestling, is an outstanding football player. He also bumped up to heavyweight in University's Dual with Wheeling Park for 3rd at the Wheeling Park Duals and earned an 8-0 decision. The team score entering that match was 32-31 Park....The football player got it done. UHS wins 35-32. I can't wait to see what he does on the gridiron in the fall.

J. Zeiders


I am certainly glad you promote your kids to wrestle. All I am saying is that is not the standard for the majority in our area. And I was at the Park Duals watching your match with WP. UHS has a great Football program and a great wrestling program. I am sure they are benefitting from each other. Football and Wrestling should be synonymous not exclusive. So again, I don't disagree with anything you are saying.


Thanks Mike. I take that as a compliment. John Marshall is not too shabby themselves these days. We look forward to being the inaugural game on the new turf in August.

noshowjoe
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:59 am

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby noshowjoe » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:19 pm

mike.carman do you know Urban Meyer or
are you one of his recruiters.
Making it mandatory for football players to have to wrestle
they wouldnt have much of a football team .

mike.carman
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:24 pm
Location: Marshall County

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby mike.carman » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:53 pm

noshowjoe wrote:mike.carman do you know Urban Meyer or
are you one of his recruiters.
Making it mandatory for football players to have to wrestle
they wouldnt have much of a football team .


Not one of his recruits. I was quoting an article he wrote a few years ago which showed a graph of who he recruits for his program. When talking about football programs I was referring to High School programs. Sorry I abbreviated High School with an HS, I guess I should have spelled it out.

coach_williams
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Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby coach_williams » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:28 pm

Bearhugger wrote:I am sure there are quite a few reasons. Here are just a few:

1. Many wrestlers are smaller in size. Football might not be a wise choice.

2. Some wrestlers stay busy competing in off season tournaments. There are no off season football games for teams to go compete in.


To add to that...

Many wrestlers may not want to play football because they know a football coach is going to demand that they bulk and then once football season is over they only have a few weeks to cut weight and get back to wrestling shape.

mscoach64
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:35 pm

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby mscoach64 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:49 pm

coach_williams wrote:
Bearhugger wrote:I am sure there are quite a few reasons. Here are just a few:

1. Many wrestlers are smaller in size. Football might not be a wise choice.

2. Some wrestlers stay busy competing in off season tournaments. There are no off season football games for teams to go compete in.


To add to that...

Many wrestlers may not want to play football because they know a football coach is going to demand that they bulk and then once football season is over they only have a few weeks to cut weight and get back to wrestling shape.
well, a few things in contrary to this....a football player probably rarely adds bulk during the season. Most have kids to maintain (and most of the time that isn't possible). And, in addition if a wrestler doesn't want to add bulk due to the fact that they are going to cut weight, then wouldn't that mean that wrestling coaches do not want their kids to play football? If that is the case, then maybe wrestling coaches are just as much the problem that you feel football coaches are. So far this dialog (and i mean that honestly as in we are having a conversation and not a back and forth sniping session) i feel that kids should play many sports considering they only have 4 years to be a high school athlete. Im not seeing a lot of wrestling first conversation being athlete first conversation.

soupbone
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:19 pm

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby soupbone » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:06 pm

Regarding the Park University match at the Duals. I agree it was a great match and a great coaching point to skip over Park's 220 and forfiet and then move the 220 to 285. Parks 220 is also quite a football player . Would like to have them wrestle each other next time around. No intent to lessen the victory for University, if I were a coach, I probably would have done the same thing.

TrueSouthFanInPburg
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:29 pm

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby TrueSouthFanInPburg » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:54 am

heard tonight at the phs match fox (phs) has quit the team. also acerman and wilson are both at 126 and should be back wrestling next week. Also heard braxton byrd is going to join the team and possible be at 120.

EasyMoney78
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:03 pm

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby EasyMoney78 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:04 am

mscoach64 wrote:Where is the Haines (Haynes) kid who wrestled for SA last year?


Not wrestling. Was told that there were some outside situations that needed to be taken care of. Unfortunate, but understand completely.

mscoach64
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:35 pm

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby mscoach64 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:24 pm

EasyMoney78 wrote:
mscoach64 wrote:Where is the Haines (Haynes) kid who wrestled for SA last year?


Not wrestling. Was told that there were some outside situations that needed to be taken care of. Unfortunate, but understand completely.

thats sad to hear. kid had a chance for a title

pkbwrestling
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:50 am

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby pkbwrestling » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:42 pm

Personal experience.

My son wrestled initially to get better at football. He didn’t get many snaps his 8th grade year. Wrestled in 8th grade. Started his freshman year. Wrestled again. Started his sophomore year. Wrestled but ended up quitting when asked to cut weight. Started varsity his junior year. Wrestling again now and is becoming competitive and has the chance to be a great football player this coming year and make some noise next year during wrestling season.

IMO not enough football players wrestle and vice versa. I’d encourage all of my lineman/linebackers/running backs to wrestle every year. Whether they get varisty mat time isn’t important. I’ve watched all state football players leave the wrestling room in tears too.

mscoach64
Posts: 295
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:35 pm

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby mscoach64 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:29 pm

pkbwrestling wrote:Personal experience.

My son wrestled initially to get better at football. He didn’t get many snaps his 8th grade year. Wrestled in 8th grade. Started his freshman year. Wrestled again. Started his sophomore year. Wrestled but ended up quitting when asked to cut weight. Started varsity his junior year. Wrestling again now and is becoming competitive and has the chance to be a great football player this coming year and make some noise next year during wrestling season.

IMO not enough football players wrestle and vice versa. I’d encourage all of my lineman/linebackers/running backs to wrestle every year. Whether they get varisty mat time isn’t important. I’ve watched all state football players leave the wrestling room in tears too.
wrestling indeed is not for the weak at heart. Definitely takes a personality to do it.

coach_williams
Posts: 581
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:06 pm

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby coach_williams » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:22 pm

mscoach64 wrote:
coach_williams wrote:
Bearhugger wrote:I am sure there are quite a few reasons. Here are just a few:

1. Many wrestlers are smaller in size. Football might not be a wise choice.

2. Some wrestlers stay busy competing in off season tournaments. There are no off season football games for teams to go compete in.


To add to that...

Many wrestlers may not want to play football because they know a football coach is going to demand that they bulk and then once football season is over they only have a few weeks to cut weight and get back to wrestling shape.
well, a few things in contrary to this....a football player probably rarely adds bulk during the season. Most have kids to maintain (and most of the time that isn't possible). And, in addition if a wrestler doesn't want to add bulk due to the fact that they are going to cut weight, then wouldn't that mean that wrestling coaches do not want their kids to play football? If that is the case, then maybe wrestling coaches are just as much the problem that you feel football coaches are. So far this dialog (and i mean that honestly as in we are having a conversation and not a back and forth sniping session) i feel that kids should play many sports considering they only have 4 years to be a high school athlete. Im not seeing a lot of wrestling first conversation being athlete first conversation.


I have never heard a wrestling coach say anything negative about their wrestlers playing football or any other sport. In fact, I have always heard them encourage it.

The bulk issue is more of a problem for wrestlers. A wrestler has 3 or 4 weeks to cut any weight that he gained during football season. A football player has 4 or 5 months to add back any bulk that he lost during wrestling season.

Just two weekends ago I talked to a coach about one of his wrestlers that had dropped a weight class but was going to add weight and go back up because his football coach was upset that he had lost weight. I have never heard of a wrestling coach monitoring football player weights and instructing them to cut weight during football season so that they are ready for wrestling season.

And I am not bashing all football coaches, but reality is reality. There are several more people here other than me who have heard football coaches oppose their players wrestling. It is a reality, and it is part of the reason so many teams have a hard time fielding a full roster.

KDunbar
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:39 pm

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby KDunbar » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:32 pm

pkbwrestling wrote:Personal experience.

My son wrestled initially to get better at football. He didn’t get many snaps his 8th grade year. Wrestled in 8th grade. Started his freshman year. Wrestled again. Started his sophomore year. Wrestled but ended up quitting when asked to cut weight. Started varsity his junior year. Wrestling again now and is becoming competitive and has the chance to be a great football player this coming year and make some noise next year during wrestling season.

IMO not enough football players wrestle and vice versa. I’d encourage all of my lineman/linebackers/running backs to wrestle every year. Whether they get varisty mat time isn’t important. I’ve watched all state football players leave the wrestling room in tears too.


Not meaning anything negative or derogatory, but why did he quit? Couldn't he just continue to benefit from practice and stay at the same weight? No answer is needed. It just struck me as odd.

pkbwrestling
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:50 am

Re: M.I.A. Where are they

Postby pkbwrestling » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:52 pm

KDunbar wrote:
pkbwrestling wrote:Personal experience.

My son wrestled initially to get better at football. He didn’t get many snaps his 8th grade year. Wrestled in 8th grade. Started his freshman year. Wrestled again. Started his sophomore year. Wrestled but ended up quitting when asked to cut weight. Started varsity his junior year. Wrestling again now and is becoming competitive and has the chance to be a great football player this coming year and make some noise next year during wrestling season.

IMO not enough football players wrestle and vice versa. I’d encourage all of my lineman/linebackers/running backs to wrestle every year. Whether they get varisty mat time isn’t important. I’ve watched all state football players leave the wrestling room in tears too.


Not meaning anything negative or derogatory, but why did he quit? Couldn't he just continue to benefit from practice and stay at the same weight? No answer is needed. It just struck me as odd.


I agree and I suggested that. There were a few people in the wrestling room that made him not want to do that. He was also trying to maintain a certain weight for football and the requested cut was more than 20 pounds. It all worked out for the best. He was able to go straight back to lifting and doubled his bench and squat over the winter.


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