West Virginia High school State championship

[kvnfarley]

For finals what needs to be done is the two referees who are not on the mat need to be seated in seperate corners away from scoring table and keep seperate score sheets. Then you would have 3 written score sheets that are independent of each other that the official on the mat could look at to make sure that a mistake has not been made. For years as coaches we have all seen distracted table workers and argued scoring mistakes sometimes we are right sometimes we ar not but the biggest match of some of these You athletes lives I think they are owed the most protection guaranteeingthem a fair match where human error doesn’t decide the winner or loser. This is an easy fix now let’s fix all the bad behavior starting with singlet straps.

[TheBoxer]

Easily the best idea I have heard all season. Even if it isn't 2 extra scoring officials 1 extra not sitting with or being updated by a anyone else at the table. This doesn't fix the past, but it can help future events.

[Bearhugger]

For finals what needs to be done is the two referees who are not on the mat need to be seated in seperate corners away from scoring table and keep seperate score sheets. Then you would have 3 written score sheets that are independent of each other that the official on the mat could look at to make sure that a mistake has not been made. For years as coaches we have all seen distracted table workers and argued scoring mistakes sometimes we are right sometimes we ar not but the biggest match of some of these You athletes lives I think they are owed the most protection guaranteeingthem a fair match where human error doesn’t decide the winner or loser. This is an easy fix now let’s fix all the bad behavior starting with singlet straps.

This is a great and very doable idea. There were plenty of referees sitting mat side already during the 145lb fiasco.

[coach_williams]

Or...as was already suggested, implement a camera and challenge system, that way all mistakes can be resolved, not just this one issue.

[TheBoxer]

Or...as was already suggested, implement a camera and challenge system, that way all mistakes can be resolved, not just this one issue.

I am on the side of this extra score keeper approach. for video I think we have to look at
a) how much would it cost to implement? (Video camera with immediate playback, multiple angles, Monitors)
b) when is it available to be used? State Finals, Semi-Finals/finals? the entire state tournament? Each round added adds exponential cost increase.
c) it opens us up to questioning judgement calls, which is currently not allowed at all.

An extra scorekeeper, or two, is cheap to implement and still fits in with the rules we have.

[coach_williams]

Or...as was already suggested, implement a camera and challenge system, that way all mistakes can be resolved, not just this one issue.

I am on the side of this extra score keeper approach. for video I think we have to look at
a) how much would it cost to implement? (Video camera with immediate playback, multiple angles, Monitors)
b) when is it available to be used? State Finals, Semi-Finals/finals? the entire state tournament? Each round added adds exponential cost increase.
c) it opens us up to questioning judgement calls, which is currently not allowed at all.

An extra scorekeeper, or two, is cheap to implement and still fits in with the rules we have.

Sorry to dredge up an old post, but I have not been on in a while.

I would suggest the camera/challenge system for the championship matches only, but the cost to hve it on every mat at states would not be that monumental. A second scorekeeper potentially fixes the issue, but if you have a ref that refuses to see any opinion but his own as the correct one then a second scorekeeper does not fix that. Video evidence is irrefutable.

As for cost, I don't see a dozen cameras and monitors costing anymore than $10,000-$12,000 or so. A GoPro Hero 5 can record at 120 fps at 1920x1080 resolution which is more than good enough for slow-mo playback and they only cost around $600. Toss in a decent flatscreen computer monitor for around $250 and you have all you need for high quality playback and slo-mo playback for challenge reviews.

[Bearhugger]

Or...as was already suggested, implement a camera and challenge system, that way all mistakes can be resolved, not just this one issue.

I am on the side of this extra score keeper approach. for video I think we have to look at
a) how much would it cost to implement? (Video camera with immediate playback, multiple angles, Monitors)
b) when is it available to be used? State Finals, Semi-Finals/finals? the entire state tournament? Each round added adds exponential cost increase.
c) it opens us up to questioning judgement calls, which is currently not allowed at all.

An extra scorekeeper, or two, is cheap to implement and still fits in with the rules we have.

Sorry to dredge up an old post, but I have not been on in a while.

I would suggest the camera/challenge system for the championship matches only, but the cost to hve it on every mat at states would not be that monumental. A second scorekeeper potentially fixes the issue, but if you have a ref that refuses to see any opinion but his own as the correct one then a second scorekeeper does not fix that. Video evidence is irrefutable.

As for cost, I don't see a dozen cameras and monitors costing anymore than $10,000-$12,000 or so. A GoPro Hero 5 can record at 120 fps at 1920x1080 resolution which is more than good enough for slow-mo playback and they only cost around $600. Toss in a decent flatscreen computer monitor for around $250 and you have all you need for high quality playback and slo-mo playback for challenge reviews.

All old posts should be dredged up until the major fiasco type problems are fixed. In the case of the 145lb AA/A final, we had a 75% breakdown in humanity. Eight people were assigned to that match. Four coaches, two referees and two table workers. Only the two coaches from Independence knew what was going on. 2 / 8 = 25% were alert, awake and on top of the first 4 minutes of the match. 75% were clueless or chose to remain silent.

I am praying that all of the coaches and referees can put aside their personal vendettas and not allow the young wrestlers to become victims going forward. I also pray that all table workers will be blessed with strong attention to details such as 1 + 1 = 2.

Hopefully the 2018 / 2019 season is a time where everybody can get back to calling the stall, calling the fall and the table workers can "add it all".

God bless

[Truesouthfaninhunt]

How about this ... place every available referee around the mat. This might amount to 8-10 refs but hey the more the merrier. Give them the capability to judge each call on the mat with either a white light if they agree with the call or a red light if they disagree. Yep just like in powerlifting!
In the case of a tie, the call is decided by the amount of fan applause when given the opportunity to cheer for both sides of the controversial call. ( Advantage South).

The only downside I can think of is that matches may last 35-40 minutes minimum but the goal is to get it right... right??!!

[Bearhugger]

How about this ... place every available referee around the mat. This might amount to 8-10 refs but hey the more the merrier. Give them the capability to judge each call on the mat with either a white light if they agree with the call or a red light if they disagree. Yep just like in powerlifting!
In the case of a tie, the call is decided by the amount of fan applause when given the opportunity to cheer for both sides of the controversial call. ( Advantage South).

The only downside I can think of is that matches may last 35-40 minutes minimum but the goal is to get it right... right??!!

We might need to add a math teacher to the scorer's tables.

[DWM]

I am on the side of this extra score keeper approach. for video I think we have to look at
a) how much would it cost to implement? (Video camera with immediate playback, multiple angles, Monitors)
b) when is it available to be used? State Finals, Semi-Finals/finals? the entire state tournament? Each round added adds exponential cost increase.
c) it opens us up to questioning judgement calls, which is currently not allowed at all.

An extra scorekeeper, or two, is cheap to implement and still fits in with the rules we have.

Sorry to dredge up an old post, but I have not been on in a while.

I would suggest the camera/challenge system for the championship matches only, but the cost to hve it on every mat at states would not be that monumental. A second scorekeeper potentially fixes the issue, but if you have a ref that refuses to see any opinion but his own as the correct one then a second scorekeeper does not fix that. Video evidence is irrefutable.

As for cost, I don't see a dozen cameras and monitors costing anymore than $10,000-$12,000 or so. A GoPro Hero 5 can record at 120 fps at 1920x1080 resolution which is more than good enough for slow-mo playback and they only cost around $600. Toss in a decent flatscreen computer monitor for around $250 and you have all you need for high quality playback and slo-mo playback for challenge reviews.

All old posts should be dredged up until the major fiasco type problems are fixed. In the case of the 145lb AA/A final, we had a 75% breakdown in humanity. Eight people were assigned to that match. Four coaches, two referees and two table workers. Only the two coaches from Independence knew what was going on. 2 / 8 = 25% were alert, awake and on top of the first 4 minutes of the match. 75% were clueless or chose to remain silent.

I am praying that all of the coaches and referees can put aside their personal vendettas and not allow the young wrestlers to become victims going forward. I also pray that all table workers will be blessed with strong attention to details such as 1 + 1 = 2.

Hopefully the 2018 / 2019 season is a time where everybody can get back to calling the stall, calling the fall and the table workers can "add it all".

God bless

4 of 8, the Winfield coaches knew the score was wrong.