wvmat.com

Its about time to get the WV Mat / Coaches Poll Team Rankings underway. As in years past, Coaches may vote on this in the Coaches Only area of the forum. If you are a coach and need access to this area, shoot me an email to
tmiller@mountain.net.

Here is the WV Mat suggestion, to start with.

AAA
1. Parkersburg South
2. Parkersburg High
3. Wheeling Park
4. Huntington
5. University
6. John Marshall
7. Cabell Midland
8. St Albans
9. Greenbrier East
10 George Washington

AA
1. Independence
2. East Fairmont
3. Point Pleasant
4. Braxton County
5. Keyser
6. Berkeley Springs
7. Winfield
8. Liberty Harrison
9. Roane County
10. Fairmont Senior

A
1. Wirt County
2. Williamstown
3. Magnolia
4. Tyler Consolidated
5. Greenbrier West
6. Wahama
7 South Harrison
8. Ritchie County
9. St. Marys
10. Doddridge County

Fans feel free to comment or correct obvious incorrect thinking.

Madonna is a top 5 in single A.

Received this inquiry:

Tim, your poll suggestion appeared both places, regular forum and coaches forum needing a password. Was that your attention?

Answer: Yeah, I put my worksheet up in the general forum, and invite input from fans. However, the official ranking/poll will be done via Coach vote in the Coaches area.

RE Madonna: Yeah, they have some talent. I looked in the score page to see what I missed, and I see no results reported for Madonna. I see from their schedule they have been to 3 out of state tournaments so far this year.

I see from looking over past years, we usually start keeping track of team polls about this time, and individual wt class rankings in January.

Madonna will be hosting Magnolia, Tyler Consolidated and Cameron this Friday.

Ritchie County beat Wirt and Tyler Consolidated

Interesting to see that your #9 AAA team beat the #3 AA in a dual. So much for AA/A being tougher than AAA.
On another note, Greenbrier East is coming along nicely. Tough dual team from 132 up, it will be interesting to see how they perform at a large tournament. Winners choice should be a good indicator.
What about Ripley? They have some tough kids coming back. I'd say GW is the tougher dual team, but Ripley will put up more points at the state tournament.

greencrush wrote:Interesting to see that your #9 AAA team beat the #3 AA in a dual. So much for AA/A being tougher than AAA.
On another note, Greenbrier East is coming along nicely. Tough dual team from 132 up, it will be interesting to see how they perform at a large tournament. Winners choice should be a good indicator.
What about Ripley? They have some tough kids coming back. I'd say GW is the tougher dual team, but Ripley will put up more points at the state tournament.

Most who comment on AA/A being strong are not talking about the individual teams but are instead referring to the collective total number of teams in AA/A.

In the "land of forfeits", I put little stock in dual meets. Some are fun, but at the end of the season, the best tournament team is who and what is remembered.

I think Ritchie County has a good team this year, but like other single A schools it is difficult for many of our wrestlers to advance out of the region. If we don't advance then we can't score at state wrestling meet, not complaining just stating a fact.

Number 5, single A Greenbrier West beat number 2 triple A Parkersburg and St,Albans this past weekend at the Grapple at the Castle.

greencrush wrote:Interesting to see that your #9 AAA team beat the #3 AA in a dual. So much for AA/A being tougher than AAA.
On another note, Greenbrier East is coming along nicely. Tough dual team from 132 up, it will be interesting to see how they perform at a large tournament. Winners choice should be a good indicator.
What about Ripley? They have some tough kids coming back. I'd say GW is the tougher dual team, but Ripley will put up more points at the state tournament.

That #3 AA/A team also then turned around and beat the #7 AAA team that beat this #9 AAA team by 35 points. You never know with match ups. Duals mean nothing at the end of the year. I agree with your statement about looking to see what this #9 AAA team can do in a bracket.

aaacoach27 wrote:

greencrush wrote:Interesting to see that your #9 AAA team beat the #3 AA in a dual. So much for AA/A being tougher than AAA.
On another note, Greenbrier East is coming along nicely. Tough dual team from 132 up, it will be interesting to see how they perform at a large tournament. Winners choice should be a good indicator.
What about Ripley? They have some tough kids coming back. I'd say GW is the tougher dual team, but Ripley will put up more points at the state tournament.

That #3 AA/A team also then turned around and beat the #7 AAA team that beat this #9 AAA team by 35 points. You never know with match ups. Duals mean nothing at the end of the year. I agree with your statement about looking to see what this #9 AAA team can do in a bracket.

besides matchups playing a big part in the outcome,
I also know for a fact the #3 AA did not have their full line up due some injuries and sickness, as well as alpha dates... and that wouldve drastically changed the dual in my opinion...
I would not put too much stock into the results of any early season dual...
Just my .02...

I prefer to focus on the individual talents. Of course when your team forfeits 3 weights and 7-8 other weight classes are filled without a wrestleoff that’s all you got to look forward to. Some very average teams build a nice record off teams like ours. And there is not a thing we can do about it but sit and watch. Frustrating!!!

Greencrush, I believe you have stirred the pot. Lol

If there was one thought I could banish from everyone's head, it is "duals mean nothing". I think it's really harmful to the sport of wrestling. Duals are the most exciting format the sport has. They don't last all day which means more people are willing to come watch them. They require participation and performance from everyone in the lineup (and sometimes the backups), not just the stars. They require coaches to strategize about matchups and roster moves. They require the wrestlers to fight for every point every second of the match, which really helps kids learn how to wrestle and helps them develop as wrestlers. If you are out there wrestling a kid who is better than you and you know the outcome of the dual might be close, you are fighting to keep from getting pinned or to keep from getting tech falled or to score that last escape that keeps a regular decision from being a major decision. If you are the better wrestler, you have to constantly be working to score more points or get a pin. Kids who learn to wrestle with that mindset all the time become better wrestlers in tournaments where those bonus points add up each round. I know we have a system in this state that doesn't incentivize doing well in dual meets. If we did, I think some coaches would work a little harder to fill their lineup or keep kids around who maybe aren't their best kids, but might develop into good wrestlers over time. My hope is that WV will do something to recognize dual meet state champions. It would do a lot for interest and participation in the sport. The fact that the outcome of a dual is so dependent on the individual matchups (so Team A might beat Team B by 10 and lose by 9 to Team C while Team B beat Team C by 12) is part of what makes a good dual exciting. The biggest thing though is that they make a bunch of wrestlers feel like they are part of a team and invested in how their teammates do. I'm excited about the individual matchups tonight, but I'm more excited about how those matchups will affect the three teams going head to head. West Virginia wrestling needs more emphasis on dual meets.

As far as the rankings go, I think Huntington is underrated at #4 in AAA. They may well have the second best team in the state overall. Lot of really tough wrestlers who always seem to peak in late February. I haven't got to see them yet, but people who have tell me they look good. The results at North Canton support that. I also think Greenbrier West is too low at #5 in A. They will put a pretty good wrestler on the mat at just about every weight. I think both of those teams should be #2 in their class. I may be underrating Wheeling Park a bit, but I just don't get to see a lot of their kids as they come up through middle school because of the travel restrictions their county places on them. Sounds like they may have a full squad by OVACs so it will be good to see how they match up against South and University there.

AMEN!

IndyHart wrote:If there was one thought I could banish from everyone's head, it is "duals mean nothing". I think it's really harmful to the sport of wrestling. Duals are the most exciting format the sport has. They don't last all day which means more people are willing to come watch them. They require participation and performance from everyone in the lineup (and sometimes the backups), not just the stars. They require coaches to strategize about matchups and roster moves. They require the wrestlers to fight for every point every second of the match, which really helps kids learn how to wrestle and helps them develop as wrestlers. If you are out there wrestling a kid who is better than you and you know the outcome of the dual might be close, you are fighting to keep from getting pinned or to keep from getting tech falled or to score that last escape that keeps a regular decision from being a major decision. If you are the better wrestler, you have to constantly be working to score more points or get a pin. Kids who learn to wrestle with that mindset all the time become better wrestlers in tournaments where those bonus points add up each round. I know we have a system in this state that doesn't incentivize doing well in dual meets. If we did, I think some coaches would work a little harder to fill their lineup or keep kids around who maybe aren't their best kids, but might develop into good wrestlers over time. My hope is that WV will do something to recognize dual meet state champions. It would do a lot for interest and participation in the sport. The fact that the outcome of a dual is so dependent on the individual matchups (so Team A might beat Team B by 10 and lose by 9 to Team C while Team B beat Team C by 12) is part of what makes a good dual exciting. The biggest thing though is that they make a bunch of wrestlers feel like they are part of a team and invested in how their teammates do. I'm excited about the individual matchups tonight, but I'm more excited about how those matchups will affect the three teams going head to head. West Virginia wrestling needs more emphasis on dual meets.

As far as the rankings go, I think Huntington is underrated at #4 in AAA. They may well have the second best team in the state overall. Lot of really tough wrestlers who always seem to peak in late February. I haven't got to see them yet, but people who have tell me they look good. The results at North Canton support that. I also think Greenbrier West is too low at #5 in A. They will put a pretty good wrestler on the mat at just about every weight. I think both of those teams should be #2 in their class. I may be underrating Wheeling Park a bit, but I just don't get to see a lot of their kids as they come up through middle school because of the travel restrictions their county places on them. Sounds like they may have a full squad by OVACs so it will be good to see how they match up against South and University there.

Great post! It would be neat to have state Duals for a dual team Champion. Top 2 teams from each region, or let’s have two regionals and the top 4 from each meet for state team dual champions. Probably not going to happen but thought I would throw it there.

South is clearly the best team in the state this year.

Ritchie County is the team to beat in single A. If the WVSSAC would get their heads out of their butts and rearrange the regions the state results would come up much differently.

Great post about duals being more important than not!! One of the biggest complaints I still hear from time to time is the length of tournaments!!! I'd love to see a state duals tournament held like they do in the state of Kentucky!! All of the points that Indyhart made are totally valid!!!

Truesouthfaninhunt wrote:South is clearly the best team in the state this year.

Really?

NightTrain wrote:Ritchie County is the team to beat in single A. If the WVSSAC would get their heads out of their butts and rearrange the regions the state results would come up much differently.

Agree!

Truesouthfaninhunt wrote:South is clearly the best team in the state this year.

Thank you for the bit of info Capt. Obviously.

Frank wrote:

Truesouthfaninhunt wrote:South is clearly the best team in the state this year.

Thank you for the bit of info Capt. Obviously.

It was good to see you and your lovely wife again Frank and spend some time with you.

I enjoyed watching the battle between Indy and East Fairmont. Some good back and forth in that dual.

Till next time.....

Loved your post, Mr. Hart! I am a huge proponent of dual matches and duals tournaments. Having spent many years traveling with our team, it was always disheartening to see some of our boys go 2 and out at the larger tournaments when only a few on the team might make it to the second day of competition. But each year when the Wheeling Park Duals rolled around, the kids finally gelled as a team, pulling for each other in close matches and gaining momentum off each others' wins. Also, I think there's a lot to be said when the action is right there in front of the teammates as opposed to being on one of up to 10 mats while the wrestler's teammates are in the stands engrossed in whatever's on their phones.

I also love the strategy of dual meets, especially when it comes to rivalries. When I first started keeping book for the team back in 2005, it wasn't until then that I discovered how important it is to win the coin toss at the beginning of the dual. When South and PHS would wrestle back in the days of Tim McCartney and Scheny Schenerlein, the strategy and roster juggling was in full force. I didn't realize that winning the coin toss means more than simply who gets choice of position in the first round. It also determines who is officially supposed to check in at the head table first. Believe me, this rule was enforced more than once at a South-PHS dual, and those infamous last-second roster substitutions resulted!

If you're so inclined, take a few minutes to read an article I wrote nearly 14 years ago. http://wvmat.com/matlines/matlin39.htm (You'll recognize a lot of the names, especially one present-day coach in particular!) It covers much of what Mr. Hart mentioned in his post. Oh, and let me get on my soapbox for a moment and vent about a pet peeve of mine. If you look at the fifth paragraph, this match nearly came down to tiebreaker criteria #6, which is first POINTS scored; not first takedowns. I will just leave it at that and step down off the soapbox now.

Many thanks to the teams and fans from Indpendence and East Fairmont for making the trip to Parkersburg last night. What a long night! LOL. Even though my backside is pretty sore from sitting for 5 hours, I only have one regret, and that's not getting there early enough to have Gator introduce me to Frank. I tend to gloss over a lot of comments on the forum, but Frank, I must say I enjoy all of your posts, and I love your sense of humor. Some may not "get" you, but I do, and you've given me a lot of chuckles.

Merry Christmas to everyone, and best wishes for a healthy, successful 2018!

JennyHannan wrote:Loved your post, Mr. Hart! I am a huge proponent of dual matches and duals tournaments. Having spent many years traveling with our team, it was always disheartening to see some of our boys go 2 and out at the larger tournaments when only a few on the team might make it to the second day of competition. But each year when the Wheeling Park Duals rolled around, the kids finally gelled as a team, pulling for each other in close matches and gaining momentum off each others' wins. Also, I think there's a lot to be said when the action is right there in front of the teammates as opposed to being on one of up to 10 mats while the wrestler's teammates are in the stands engrossed in whatever's on their phones.

I also love the strategy of dual meets, especially when it comes to rivalries. When I first started keeping book for the team back in 2005, it wasn't until then that I discovered how important it is to win the coin toss at the beginning of the dual. When South and PHS would wrestle back in the days of Tim McCartney and Scheny Schenerlein, the strategy and roster juggling was in full force. I didn't realize that winning the coin toss means more than simply who gets choice of position in the first round. It also determines who is officially supposed to check in at the head table first. Believe me, this rule was enforced more than once at a South-PHS dual, and those infamous last-second roster substitutions resulted!

If you're so inclined, take a few minutes to read an article I wrote nearly 14 years ago. http://wvmat.com/matlines/matlin39.htm (You'll recognize a lot of the names, especially one present-day coach in particular!) It covers much of what Mr. Hart mentioned in his post. Oh, and let me get on my soapbox for a moment and vent about a pet peeve of mine. If you look at the fifth paragraph, this match nearly came down to tiebreaker criteria #6, which is first POINTS scored; not first takedowns. I will just leave it at that and step down off the soapbox now.

Many thanks to the teams and fans from Indpendence and East Fairmont for making the trip to Parkersburg last night. What a long night! LOL. Even though my backside is pretty sore from sitting for 5 hours, I only have one regret, and that's not getting there early enough to have Gator introduce me to Frank. I tend to gloss over a lot of comments on the forum, but Frank, I must say I enjoy all of your posts, and I love your sense of humor. Some may not "get" you, but I do, and you've given me a lot of chuckles.

Merry Christmas to everyone, and best wishes for a healthy, successful 2018!

I enjoyed going back and reading your article again Jenny. I actually had an early dinner with Frank and his lovely wife and I’m sure he’d loved to have met you. Frank is a great guy and I enjoy his humor also. We love to get “digs” at one another.

Madonna beat Magnolia 61-18.
Madonna beat Tyler Consolidated 58-9
and beat Cameron 50-12

admin wrote:Its about time to get the WV Mat / Coaches Poll Team Rankings underway. As in years past, Coaches may vote on this in the Coaches Only area of the forum. If you are a coach and need access to this area, shoot me an email to
tmiller@mountain.net.

Here is the WV Mat suggestion, to start with.

AAA
1. Parkersburg South
2. Parkersburg High
3. Wheeling Park
4. Huntington
5. University
6. John Marshall
7. Cabell Midland
8. St Albans
9. Greenbrier East
10 George Washington

AA
1. Independence
2. East Fairmont
3. Point Pleasant
4. Braxton County
5. Keyser
6. Berkeley Springs
7. Winfield
8. Liberty Harrison
9. Roane County
10. Fairmont Senior

A
1. Wirt County
2. Williamstown
3. Magnolia
4. Tyler Consolidated
5. Greenbrier West
6. Wahama
7 South Harrison
8. Ritchie County
9. St. Marys
10. Doddridge County

Fans feel free to comment or correct obvious incorrect thinking.

Madonna defeated Magnolia and Tyler Consolidated thoroughly in the same night.

The three best Single A teams this season in alphabetical order are: Greenbrier West, Madonna and Wirt. Greenbrier West and Wirt will qualify superior numbers for the state tournament due to their team talent and being in weaker regions. Madonna has the toughest region.

Last season when all Single A teams met on a level playing field at the "Single A Challenge", Madonna won. A beating in a tough region helped Madonna drop to 4th among Single A schools in Huntington.

Diamond wrote:

Truesouthfaninhunt wrote:South is clearly the best team in the state this year.

Really?

Really!

shemailman wrote:

Diamond wrote:

Truesouthfaninhunt wrote:South is clearly the best team in the state this year.

Really?

Really!

So South got a malematmaid and a shemailman pulling for them? I think it’s one clown tooting two horns.