wvmat.com

By the way, wrestle offs do provide the "best" wrestler a position during the season. What are we afraid of?

greencrush wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:

greencrush wrote:
That you are this incredulous over a couple decent JV wrestlers says something about WV wrestling. How many B-teamers do you think there are in PA/OH that would rock our state tournament, or at least qualify for their own? Every team should have B-teams that provide tough competition for starting spots. Bringing JV wrestlers into the regional tournaments is not going to help the sport of wrestling.

I do not care about PA. I am talking about WV. I suggest the people who live in WV, start worrying about WV. It is ridiculous to hold yourself back based on what another state does or does not do. If I followed what others did in my teens, I wouldn't be here.

My point went right over your head. Adding WV's generally weak population of JV wrestlers to Regional tournaments will water them down, not strengthen them.
I know, I know- Everyone gets a trophy nowadays. I just don't subscribe to that notion. Sorry if I'm not modern or liberal enough for you.
Earn the starting spot, or sit on the bench. That is the way sports work. Wrestling is supposed to teach that hard work and dedication get you somewhere, not that losing wrestle-offs earns you the same opportunity as the person who worked hard to beat you.
You are talking about holding back, not me.

I am at the Wheeling Park Duals. Wrestling is only teaching hard work to the few. All WV teams here have 1 to 3 higher level wrestlers, not 14.

Boys are now wearing hairnets. Refs are stopping matches and awarding unsportsmanlike points because a given wrestler takes his opponent down and cuts him 6 times. The ref says he was trying to humiliate his opponent. This is the new modern and it is farther away from hard work than allowing B readers into the regionals. Being behind a pack of state champions is just getting dealt a crappy hand. These B readers teamers would annihilate the rest of the "hardworking" pack at other schools.

"I am at the Wheeling Park Duals. Wrestling is only teaching hard work to the few. All WV teams here have 1 to 3 higher level wrestlers, not 14."

I really have my own rule not to post on here. BUT...I think some may take offense to the above post. "Wrestling is only teaching hard work to the few"??? I would have to beg to differ. I know most of our coaches are teaching hard work to our wrestlers, I know we are at University. Not just to the "higher level kids" but to all of our kids. Some may also take offense to "1 to 3 higher level wrestlers." But I guess you have your opinion (We are not Independence or South so how could we possibly have more than one good wrestler).

Ken Maisel
Head Wrestling Coach
University HS

aaacoach22 wrote:"I am at the Wheeling Park Duals. Wrestling is only teaching hard work to the few. All WV teams here have 1 to 3 higher level wrestlers, not 14."

I really have my own rule not to post on here. BUT...I think some may take offense to the above post. "Wrestling is only teaching hard work to the few"??? I would have to beg to differ. I know most of our coaches are teaching hard work to our wrestlers, I know we are at University. Not just to the "higher level kids" but to all of our kids. Some may also take offense to "1 to 3 higher level wrestlers." But I guess you have your opinion (We are not Independence or South so how could we possibly have more than one good wrestler).

Ken Maisel
Head Wrestling Coach
University HS

Coach of the year speaking to ya boys! This man knows what he's talking about and has the hardware to prove it.

ZZChooseTop wrote:

aaacoach22 wrote:"I am at the Wheeling Park Duals. Wrestling is only teaching hard work to the few. All WV teams here have 1 to 3 higher level wrestlers, not 14."

I really have my own rule not to post on here. BUT...I think some may take offense to the above post. "Wrestling is only teaching hard work to the few"??? I would have to beg to differ. I know most of our coaches are teaching hard work to our wrestlers, I know we are at University. Not just to the "higher level kids" but to all of our kids. Some may also take offense to "1 to 3 higher level wrestlers." But I guess you have your opinion (We are not Independence or South so how could we possibly have more than one good wrestler).

Ken Maisel
Head Wrestling Coach
University HS

Coach of the year speaking to ya boys! This man knows what he's talking about and has the hardware to prove it.

I know this is a worthless, non-wrestling, post comment I am putting on here but I couldn't resist and it might shift the conversation.
I thought it is cool that the subject title of this post was South and the conversation has shifted entirely away from anything about South.
That may be a first. I can't think of anything interesting to say about South at this time. I would like it if someone would add some more thoughts (not just scores) on the wrestling at the Wheeling Park Duals on those post sites, as I was out of town and couldn't attend.

KDunbar wrote:I know this is a worthless, non-wrestling, post comment I am putting on here but I couldn't resist and it might shift the conversation.
I thought it is cool that the subject title of this post was South and the conversation has shifted entirely away from anything about South.
That may be a first. I can't think of anything interesting to say about South at this time. I would like it if someone would add some more thoughts (not just scores) on the wrestling at the Wheeling Park Duals on those post sites, as I was out of town and couldn't attend.

Actually, it is indirectly about South. South has a returning state tournament placer on JV. Using the logic of some, he has gone from one of the top 6 last season to below 29th. I have read comments where people say if you are not good enough to make varsity, then you shouldn't get to wrestle in the region.

All we ever hear about is South and if you’re not South then you’re nothing. We get it South is good but there are other teams and athletes

wrestlingfan23202 wrote:All we ever hear about is South and if you’re not South then you’re nothing. We get it South is good but there are other teams and athletes

I think your issue, along with several others, is that your insecurities about not being as good as South upsets you. South is a consistent winner and that helps raise the level of WV entirely. Instead of being upset that South is the best team in WV and gets talked about on here often, embrace how much they help WV wrestling as a whole.

wrestlingfan23202 wrote:All we ever hear about is South and if you’re not South then you’re nothing. We get it South is good but there are other teams and athletes

I was just trying to be light hearted and humorous. You just decided to go for humorous. But I don't agree with your statement that "if you're not South then you're nothing ". But, you are entitled to your opinion.

Bearhugger wrote:

KDunbar wrote:I know this is a worthless, non-wrestling, post comment I am putting on here but I couldn't resist and it might shift the conversation.
I thought it is cool that the subject title of this post was South and the conversation has shifted entirely away from anything about South.
That may be a first. I can't think of anything interesting to say about South at this time. I would like it if someone would add some more thoughts (not just scores) on the wrestling at the Wheeling Park Duals on those post sites, as I was out of town and couldn't attend.

Actually, it is indirectly about South. South has a returning state tournament placer on JV. Using the logic of some, he has gone from one of the top 6 last season to below 29th. I have read comments where people say if you are not good enough to make varsity, then you shouldn't get to wrestle in the region.

Very good post! Why does a good wrestler that would definitely or should place in states be eliminated.

aaacoach22 is right i never met a wrestling coach that only helped a few kids on their team.
But the comment about South and Indy is a different story.
I don't care how much hardware he has he would not get my vote.

Aaacoach22, wow really. You come onto a thread titled "South" and then add your two cents. I looked into the great data available on this site, and consistently for the past 15years the statement is true of your team University! How many state champs have you averaged since 2000? You have only placed above 6th in AAA once in that time and averaged below 10th.
So with that data on hand, your team sends 1-3 state placers per year to Huntington. Not champions placers.
I also agree with your comment about teaching the entire team hard work, but number show only 1-3 of the wrestlers actually learn its lessons.
Your lame jab at South and Indy offends me, what's wrong with setting the bar higher coach, traveling outside of the state for competition to make your entire team better, as close as your program is to PA,OH you could increase your averages if you got on the train, instead of throwing eggs at the programs on that train as they blow by you....

Each program that has began to travel for competition outside the state consistently has gotten better. I remember when Indy first got started on it, 05-07 my son was wrestling then, now look at them going for a third straight team title.

bearhugger, your spot on. The JV boys should be able to compete at regional. South's JV team had two runner ups and multiple placers at Powerade JV tournament. It's unfortunate they cannot represent their talents.

noshowjoe wrote:aaacoach22 is right i never met a wrestling coach that only helped a few kids on their team.
But the comment about South and Indy is a different story.
I don't care how much hardware he has he would not get my vote.

My comment about Independence and South was certainly no disrespect to those programs, the comment was directed to the author of the post.

rodneyjwv wrote:Aaacoach22, wow really. You come onto a thread titled "South" and then add your two cents. I looked into the great data available on this site, and consistently for the past 15years the statement is true of your team University! How many state champs have you averaged since 2000? You have only placed above 6th in AAA once in that time and averaged below 10th.
So with that data on hand, your team sends 1-3 state placers per year to Huntington. Not champions placers.
I also agree with your comment about teaching the entire team hard work, but number show only 1-3 of the wrestlers actually learn its lessons.
Your lame jab at South and Indy offends me, what's wrong with setting the bar higher coach, traveling outside of the state for competition to make your entire team better, as close as your program is to PA,OH you could increase your averages if you got on the train, instead of throwing eggs at the programs on that train as they blow by you....

Each program that has began to travel for competition outside the state consistently has gotten better. I remember when Indy first got started on it, 05-07 my son was wrestling then, now look at them going for a third straight team title.

bearhugger, your spot on. The JV boys should be able to compete at regional. South's JV team had two runner ups and multiple placers at Powerade JV tournament. It's unfortunate they cannot represent their talents.

Doesn't take long to remember why I don't get involved on the forum!

Maybe I am completely interpreting the post wrong, but I find nothing wrong or offensive with Mr. Maisel's comment at all. I am deeply discouraged by the lack of class and respect towards one of the greatest coaches in West Virginia that has donated countless hours of his time to help develop young men on his team as well as develop wrestlers throughout the state in freestyle. I have kept my mouth shut on this forum for the past 2-3 years, but as someone who has coached and organized/directed/ran tournaments it is extremely frustrating to see useful information, results, recognizing accomplishments, etc. pushed off the forum due to bickering, beating a dead horse on rules that average Joe on the forum has no say in and pointless conversations about where to eat or how things were 30 years ago by grown men(trust me this is not the term I wanted to use). This does nothing to promote the sport.

dontlikethelights wrote:Maybe I am completely interpreting the post wrong, but I find nothing wrong or offensive with Mr. Maisel's comment at all. I am deeply discouraged by the lack of class and respect towards one of the greatest coaches in West Virginia that has donated countless hours of his time to help develop young men on his team as well as develop wrestlers throughout the state in freestyle. I have kept my mouth shut on this forum for the past 2-3 years, but as someone who has coached and organized/directed/ran tournaments it is extremely frustrating to see useful information, results, recognizing accomplishments, etc. pushed off the forum due to bickering, beating a dead horse on rules that average Joe on the forum has no say in and pointless conversations about where to eat or how things were 30 years ago by grown men(trust me this is not the term I wanted to use). This does nothing to promote the sport.

Excellent! Much rather hear from a coach that makes a solid team out of mediocre talent than a coach that has inherited talent and rides the wave

“Allow them to..”, “get to”, “let them”, “deserve”... how about EARN! The thing I love about this sport more than anything is the absence of politics. Each wrestler has the opportunity to succeed. So if the wrestler doesn’t get the spot they want by earning it, it should be “given” to them? No. I know kids that don’t have a spot or lost it. It sucks. No one likes to see the disappointment in a kids face. But use this opportunity as parents to teach a life lessons and encourage dedication and harder work. I moved my son to begin his high school career, KNOWING he may not crack the starting lineup from where he would have without issue. I did that because He wants to compete at the highest level he can. He has had to learn some tough lessons along the way, but they have been worth it. Stop making excuses and put in the work.

Hinzfan wrote:“Allow them to..”, “get to”, “let them”, “deserve”... how about EARN! The thing I love about this sport more than anything is the absence of politics. Each wrestler has the opportunity to succeed. So if the wrestler doesn’t get the spot they want by earning it, it should be “given” to them? No. I know kids that don’t have a spot or lost it. It sucks. No one likes to see the disappointment in a kids face. But use this opportunity as parents to teach a life lessons and encourage dedication and harder work. I moved my son to begin his high school career, KNOWING he may not crack the starting lineup from where he would have without issue. I did that because He wants to compete at the highest level he can. He has had to learn some tough lessons along the way, but they have been worth it. Stop making excuses and put in the work.

I talked about hard work and dedication earlier, when discussing the morals and values of wrestling. Here you highlight another important facet of what we are trying to teach to these young men, perseverance.
In regards to Coach Maisel, it's good to see that there are still coaches out there instilling the values which are the very foundation of our sport, and of manhood, in these young men. The jabs directed at coach Maisel and University's Program are completely undeserved. He never cites his accomplishments, awards, or accolades, and did not attempt to use them to validate his point. Others brought up his accomplishments. So why direct your ire at him?

dontlikethelights wrote:Maybe I am completely interpreting the post wrong, but I find nothing wrong or offensive with Mr. Maisel's comment at all. I am deeply discouraged by the lack of class and respect towards one of the greatest coaches in West Virginia that has donated countless hours of his time to help develop young men on his team as well as develop wrestlers throughout the state in freestyle. I have kept my mouth shut on this forum for the past 2-3 years, but as someone who has coached and organized/directed/ran tournaments it is extremely frustrating to see useful information, results, recognizing accomplishments, etc. pushed off the forum due to bickering, beating a dead horse on rules that average Joe on the forum has no say in and pointless conversations about where to eat or how things were 30 years ago by grown men(trust me this is not the term I wanted to use). This does nothing to promote the sport.

greencrush wrote:

Hinzfan wrote:“Allow them to..”, “get to”, “let them”, “deserve”... how about EARN! The thing I love about this sport more than anything is the absence of politics. Each wrestler has the opportunity to succeed. So if the wrestler doesn’t get the spot they want by earning it, it should be “given” to them? No. I know kids that don’t have a spot or lost it. It sucks. No one likes to see the disappointment in a kids face. But use this opportunity as parents to teach a life lessons and encourage dedication and harder work. I moved my son to begin his high school career, KNOWING he may not crack the starting lineup from where he would have without issue. I did that because He wants to compete at the highest level he can. He has had to learn some tough lessons along the way, but they have been worth it. Stop making excuses and put in the work.

I talked about hard work and dedication earlier, when discussing the morals and values of wrestling. Here you highlight another important facet of what we are trying to teach to these young men, perseverance.
In regards to Coach Maisel, it's good to see that there are still coaches out there instilling the values which are the very foundation of our sport, and of manhood, in these young men. The jabs directed at coach Maisel and University's Program are completely undeserved. He never cites his accomplishments, awards, or accolades, and did not attempt to use them to validate his point. Others brought up his accomplishments. So why direct your ire at him?

Well it wouldn’t take long to list his accomplishments, awards or accolades anyway. Proof is in the pudding.

MaleMatMaid wrote:

greencrush wrote:

Hinzfan wrote:“Allow them to..”, “get to”, “let them”, “deserve”... how about EARN! The thing I love about this sport more than anything is the absence of politics. Each wrestler has the opportunity to succeed. So if the wrestler doesn’t get the spot they want by earning it, it should be “given” to them? No. I know kids that don’t have a spot or lost it. It sucks. No one likes to see the disappointment in a kids face. But use this opportunity as parents to teach a life lessons and encourage dedication and harder work. I moved my son to begin his high school career, KNOWING he may not crack the starting lineup from where he would have without issue. I did that because He wants to compete at the highest level he can. He has had to learn some tough lessons along the way, but they have been worth it. Stop making excuses and put in the work.

I talked about hard work and dedication earlier, when discussing the morals and values of wrestling. Here you highlight another important facet of what we are trying to teach to these young men, perseverance.
In regards to Coach Maisel, it's good to see that there are still coaches out there instilling the values which are the very foundation of our sport, and of manhood, in these young men. The jabs directed at coach Maisel and University's Program are completely undeserved. He never cites his accomplishments, awards, or accolades, and did not attempt to use them to validate his point. Others brought up his accomplishments. So why direct your ire at him?

Well it wouldn’t take long to list his accomplishments, awards or accolades anyway. Proof is in the pudding.

Well, that's a well rounded and perfectly formulated argument. It really proves you right, and is certain to sway the opinion of those opposed to you. Nobody can top ad hominem. Good job.

I think this thread got way off topic and has went sideways. Time to move on.....