GONE in 12 Seconds

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Bearhugger
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Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:14 am

GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby Bearhugger » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:05 pm

We recently had a match that was 13 forfeits and only one actual match. That match was over in 12 seconds.

The coaches need to start talking to each other in advance and either cancel matches like this to save weigh ins or have the lone wrestler drive over and have the match in the practice room. Have both coaches ref it to save money.
Only cowards send messages on napkins.

aacoach106
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby aacoach106 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:26 am

If this was the RCB/Phillip Barbour match you speak of, Byrd had a 170 injure his back earlier, the 195 injure his shoulder, and the 220 was out as a precaution. This match also happened at a tournament so no way to cancel it. Weigh ins were not wasted I believe P.B. had many other matches that day and so did Byrd.

KDunbar
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:39 pm

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby KDunbar » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:44 pm

I know it was not really the intent of the post, but I would point out that we have to watch we don't advocate one way and then be slightly negative when it happens. It disturbs all of us to see a high school team only have 3 or 4 wrestlers because we want to see the sport be popular and grow if possible. However, we have all sort of said in one place or another that if you have only 1 kid, have a team, let him wrestle, and hopefully good things will happen. I'm going to guess that the coach of a team with only a few wrestlers has already let the other coach know of their situation (if they weren't already aware). Again, I realize your point was to be helpful from a cost and weigh in perspective. But I will say to the team and kids involved "keep up the good work and more power to you". You embody part of what is good about wrestling.

aacoach61
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:34 pm

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby aacoach61 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:22 pm

It is very difficult for even an AAA school to fill 14 weight classes. That number should be reduced to 12 or even 10 like the NCAA.

If you don’t want to reduce the number of high school weight classes, then at least change the points awarded for a forfeit. It always bothered me that a forfeit counted for as many point (6) as a fall. That’s just not a good way to decide a match.

One further thought: the 100 win mark is a great milestone, but it would mean even more if we did not include forfeit wins in that total.

mscoach4
Posts: 370
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:00 pm

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby mscoach4 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:32 pm

Yes it sucks as a coach to have unfilled weight classes & see wrestlers get 6 automatically. If it were less than 6 though I could see lots of coaches not sending wrestlers out against a super wrestler. It has to stay at 6 for that reason alone, teams with several superior wrestlers would in effect be penalized. Coaches would start moving people around in a cat & mouse strategy game trying to gain points instead of letting wrestlers decide things on the mat. Just my opinion though,,,,,

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brentsams
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Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby brentsams » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:28 am

Without being there, it's hard to comment on that particular duel. As a tourney director, I've experienced this and coaches do a fantastic job of getting kids exhibition matches by taking a forfeit, then bumping a wrestler up for the exhibition. It's hard to automatically give up the forfeit points. I wouldn't be to quick to judge.

Bearhugger
Posts: 3311
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:14 am

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby Bearhugger » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:43 pm

aacoach61 wrote:It is very difficult for even an AAA school to fill 14 weight classes. That number should be reduced to 12 or even 10 like the NCAA.

If you don’t want to reduce the number of high school weight classes, then at least change the points awarded for a forfeit. It always bothered me that a forfeit counted for as many point (6) as a fall. That’s just not a good way to decide a match.

One further thought: the 100 win mark is a great milestone, but it would mean even more if we did not include forfeit wins in that total.


The number of weight classes should never be reduced!

College needs to add at least one more weight class at 220lbs.

I am beginning to suspect that the Principals are part of the problem too when it comes to poor participation in wrestling and everything else. Keyword is "part".
Only cowards send messages on napkins.

mike.carman
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:24 pm
Location: Marshall County

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby mike.carman » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:57 pm

Bearhugger wrote:
aacoach61 wrote:It is very difficult for even an AAA school to fill 14 weight classes. That number should be reduced to 12 or even 10 like the NCAA.

If you don’t want to reduce the number of high school weight classes, then at least change the points awarded for a forfeit. It always bothered me that a forfeit counted for as many point (6) as a fall. That’s just not a good way to decide a match.

One further thought: the 100 win mark is a great milestone, but it would mean even more if we did not include forfeit wins in that total.


The number of weight classes should never be reduced!

College needs to add at least one more weight class at 220lbs.

I am beginning to suspect that the Principals are part of the problem too when it comes to poor participation in wrestling and everything else. Keyword is "part".


Principals are what is wrong with the WVSSAC. Parents are what is wrong with participation in all sports. They fill their kids' heads with delusions that they should walk into starting rolls because they are too good to be backups. It is symptomatic of the trophy generation. 2 reasons kids don't go out for wrestling. 1: They can't beat the number 1 kid out for the weight and if a program has more than one really good kid and they are clustered together, they feel what is the use, and are not content to get better and wrestle JV. 2: The program is small and insignificant and they have no experience and don't want to get their buts handed to them as a team or an individual. I have a lot of respect for those athletes that continue to go out for their school teams that are lacking in numbers and continue to do what they love no matter what the circumstances. As for reason 1, we have an entire grade that, for the most part, won't wrestle because there are 3 or 4 guys in their weight classes they can't beat. Some of these wrestlers are pretty good themselves but don't want to play second fiddle or give up weight to get in the lineup and that kind of mentality can only come from the grown ups around them. Heaven forbid they go in the room and work out with these hammers and get better themselves. Just my opinion.

wv16refgk
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Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby wv16refgk » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:48 pm

I for one loved Mike Carman's post!!! He tells it just like it is and it's a sad state of affairs when every one gets a trophy!! George Keeney

mike.carman
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:24 pm
Location: Marshall County

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby mike.carman » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:18 pm

wv16refgk wrote:I for one loved Mike Carman's post!!! He tells it just like it is and it's a sad state of affairs when every one gets a trophy!! George Keeney


Thank's George, it's nice to be appreciated every once in a while.

Shuysmom
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:57 pm

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby Shuysmom » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:47 pm

Bearhugger wrote:
aacoach61 wrote:It is very difficult for even an AAA school to fill 14 weight classes. That number should be reduced to 12 or even 10 like the NCAA.

If you don’t want to reduce the number of high school weight classes, then at least change the points awarded for a forfeit. It always bothered me that a forfeit counted for as many point (6) as a fall. That’s just not a good way to decide a match.

One further thought: the 100 win mark is a great milestone, but it would mean even more if we did not include forfeit wins in that total.


The number of weight classes should never be reduced!

College needs to add at least one more weight class at 220lbs.

I am beginning to suspect that the Principals are part of the problem too when it comes to poor participation in wrestling and everything else. Keyword is "part".

As a wrestling mom and a principal, I am curious about the statement "I am beginning to suspect that the Principals are part of the problem too when it comes to poor participation in wrestling and everything else". I am unsure how I, as a principal, may directly affect this, but as a reflective practitioner, I am always willing to consider other people's viewpoints. I would like to consider actions I have taken are inadvertently affecting wrestling. Please elaborate.

Bearhugger
Posts: 3311
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:14 am

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby Bearhugger » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:01 pm

Shuysmom wrote:
Bearhugger wrote:
aacoach61 wrote:It is very difficult for even an AAA school to fill 14 weight classes. That number should be reduced to 12 or even 10 like the NCAA.

If you don’t want to reduce the number of high school weight classes, then at least change the points awarded for a forfeit. It always bothered me that a forfeit counted for as many point (6) as a fall. That’s just not a good way to decide a match.

One further thought: the 100 win mark is a great milestone, but it would mean even more if we did not include forfeit wins in that total.


The number of weight classes should never be reduced!

College needs to add at least one more weight class at 220lbs.

I am beginning to suspect that the Principals are part of the problem too when it comes to poor participation in wrestling and everything else. Keyword is "part".

As a wrestling mom and a principal, I am curious about the statement "I am beginning to suspect that the Principals are part of the problem too when it comes to poor participation in wrestling and everything else". I am unsure how I, as a principal, may directly affect this, but as a reflective practitioner, I am always willing to consider other people's viewpoints. I would like to consider actions I have taken are inadvertently affecting wrestling. Please elaborate.


Whereas the school you are affiliated is unknown, we can leave it that way. I didn't single out any particular school, so there is no need for a given principal to take anything personal. However, each given principal should look in the mirror and ask themselves "what do I do to support the wrestling team?" Along with the dance team, chorus, debate team, etc, etc.

In my life, I have visited a few schools. I see the pictures, trophies, plaques, etc that are on display. I also see schools that have nothing on display. I visit schools during the season and see handmade signs that are made to support the wrestlers. Some schools do nothing. On Monday morning, what schools announce the wrestling results? Some schools have banner type posters for their wrestlers (and other sports).

Over the years, there is often dialogue on here about certain Kanawha County schools that have a handful of wrestlers despite having some of the largest student bodies. The response is always "the administration doesn't support it".

People talk about how certain football coaches discourage kids from wrestling so they can lift weight.

Maybe principals should establish a special gym class for the last class session of the day and it is intended for football players and wrestlers to lift weights. It was done for football players back in the 80s.............it could be done now.

I would call in all of the coaches and ask them why do they think participation is down for wrestling. What does the football coach say? "I am building an army of division 1 recruits and want my boys only lifting".

What schools have a pep rally for the wrestling team?

When did a principal ever walk the halls and tell the kids to come to the home match this week? Tell them we want to fill the gym!

I bet over half of all the WV high school principals never even attend a match!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We talked about this last season and nobody came to the defense of their principal. Last season, I saw Parkersburg South's principal and Independence's principal numerous times, to include the state tournament.

I am coming to the National Guard duals January 5th. 30+ schools will be there. Maybe, just maybe we will have one principal in attendance?

I am coming to Cameron on January 6th. I want to meet the principal! I will look for them at the tournament.

JANUARY 10TH: Finally.......the Bear comes BACK to ROAC(Parkersburg South). I already know their principal will be there.

I am going to Fairmont on January 13th/14th for the Winner's Choice. I should at least see the principals of North Marion, East Fairmont and Fairmont Senior. I want to shake their hands!!!!!

January 21/22: WSAZ in Huntington. I will be there. There should be at least 3 principals there out of the 30 to 40+ schools.

January 27th: Undecided. I might go where the most principals are going to be.

Regional weekend: AA/A Region 1!!!!!!! By this time, I will have given up on the principals and I will just want to see the best battles!

Good luck to your son. I know he has the support of his principal.
Only cowards send messages on napkins.

aacoach106
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby aacoach106 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:17 pm

Bearhugger, hope to see you at Cameron, weather permitting of course.

Bearhugger
Posts: 3311
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:14 am

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby Bearhugger » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:25 pm

aacoach106 wrote:Bearhugger, hope to see you at Cameron, weather permitting of course.


I will be wearing a Marshall University hoody. However, I won't be much conversation "during the matches".

I recall the first words I said to my friend Gator when he came over to me. I said "I'll talk to you after this match Gator".
Only cowards send messages on napkins.

aacoach106
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby aacoach106 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:29 pm

Me either, however between the end of the match and beginning of the next I like to talk.I will be the younger better looking of the RCB coaches ha ha.

Ol'Dad
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:00 pm

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby Ol'Dad » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:33 am

I believe another promoting factor is the lack of media coverage. I’m not sure if the coaches need to invite the media or it’s there responsibility to come but the only media I see at our matches is the paper. No coverage by TV or radio. By coverage I mean just mentioning the score. Yet it’s seems like the football and basketball players get plenty.

Just another note.


I for one am glad this site exists. In being on the mats with both our middle and high school programs I don’t get much time to see many other wrestlers and this site keeps me up to date.

Thank you

Bearhugger
Posts: 3311
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:14 am

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby Bearhugger » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:12 am

Ol'Dad wrote:I believe another promoting factor is the lack of media coverage. I’m not sure if the coaches need to invite the media or it’s there responsibility to come but the only media I see at our matches is the paper. No coverage by TV or radio. By coverage I mean just mentioning the score. Yet it’s seems like the football and basketball players get plenty.

Just another note.


I for one am glad this site exists. In being on the mats with both our middle and high school programs I don’t get much time to see many other wrestlers and this site keeps me up to date.

Thank you


You are spot on! There is not enough media coverage. There is also not enough coverage within the school by the administration.

Yes, this is an excellent site. The biggest weakness is lack of INPUTS from the audience. Not enough scores, not enough schedules (once a year task), not enough forum inputs.
Only cowards send messages on napkins.

Ol'Dad
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:00 pm

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby Ol'Dad » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:47 pm

Bearhugger, it seems as though you and I will cross pathed many times over the next several weeks. Though I probably won’t get to meet you, I believe there should be some good wrestling where we will be.

National Guard
Winners Choice
WSAZ
AA/A Region 1

Shuysmom
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:57 pm

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby Shuysmom » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:44 pm

Bearhugger wrote:
Shuysmom wrote:
Bearhugger wrote:
The number of weight classes should never be reduced!

College needs to add at least one more weight class at 220lbs.

I am beginning to suspect that the Principals are part of the problem too when it comes to poor participation in wrestling and everything else. Keyword is "part".

As a wrestling mom and a principal, I am curious about the statement "I am beginning to suspect that the Principals are part of the problem too when it comes to poor participation in wrestling and everything else". I am unsure how I, as a principal, may directly affect this, but as a reflective practitioner, I am always willing to consider other people's viewpoints. I would like to consider actions I have taken are inadvertently affecting wrestling. Please elaborate.


Whereas the school you are affiliated is unknown, we can leave it that way. I didn't single out any particular school, so there is no need for a given principal to take anything personal. However, each given principal should look in the mirror and ask themselves "what do I do to support the wrestling team?" Along with the dance team, chorus, debate team, etc, etc.

In my life, I have visited a few schools. I see the pictures, trophies, plaques, etc that are on display. I also see schools that have nothing on display. I visit schools during the season and see handmade signs that are made to support the wrestlers. Some schools do nothing. On Monday morning, what schools announce the wrestling results? Some schools have banner type posters for their wrestlers (and other sports).

Over the years, there is often dialogue on here about certain Kanawha County schools that have a handful of wrestlers despite having some of the largest student bodies. The response is always "the administration doesn't support it".

People talk about how certain football coaches discourage kids from wrestling so they can lift weight.

Maybe principals should establish a special gym class for the last class session of the day and it is intended for football players and wrestlers to lift weights. It was done for football players back in the 80s.............it could be done now.

I would call in all of the coaches and ask them why do they think participation is down for wrestling. What does the football coach say? "I am building an army of division 1 recruits and want my boys only lifting".

What schools have a pep rally for the wrestling team?

When did a principal ever walk the halls and tell the kids to come to the home match this week? Tell them we want to fill the gym!

I bet over half of all the WV high school principals never even attend a match!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We talked about this last season and nobody came to the defense of their principal. Last season, I saw Parkersburg South's principal and Independence's principal numerous times, to include the state tournament.

I am coming to the National Guard duals January 5th. 30+ schools will be there. Maybe, just maybe we will have one principal in attendance?

I am coming to Cameron on January 6th. I want to meet the principal! I will look for them at the tournament.

JANUARY 10TH: Finally.......the Bear comes BACK to ROAC(Parkersburg South). I already know their principal will be there.

I am going to Fairmont on January 13th/14th for the Winner's Choice. I should at least see the principals of North Marion, East Fairmont and Fairmont Senior. I want to shake their hands!!!!!

January 21/22: WSAZ in Huntington. I will be there. There should be at least 3 principals there out of the 30 to 40+ schools.

January 27th: Undecided. I might go where the most principals are going to be.

Regional weekend: AA/A Region 1!!!!!!! By this time, I will have given up on the principals and I will just want to see the best battles!

Good luck to your son. I know he has the support of his principal.


Bearhugger, thanks for the response. I certainly don't take your comments personally, but like to hear the input from outside observers in order to reflect on my own practice. I agree that administration often does not support all extra-curriculars equally. I know I struggle to be at every sport and fine art performance an equal number of times. Especially in the spring with tennis, track, softball and baseball all playing multiple times a week and also needing to attend spring band and choir concerts, honors diners, graduation activities and such. I also agree that how you recognize and suooort the athletes at school is a big thing. One easy thing a principal can do for wrestling is host a quad in the afternoon and allow students to attend.

Jbee
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Parkersburg, WV

Re: GONE in 12 Seconds

Postby Jbee » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:34 pm

Marketing of the sport is lacking. They have not caught up to the times.
On Line marketing is the way to go. every team should have a facebook page and spreading the word daily. South has a wrestling page and a South Athletics page that help spread the word. even at that people have to share and like to get it to people who are not aware of the pages but both do a good job.
Today as everyone knows the internet and facebook is your best marketing tool.
Im sure in some areas unless the person knows of WVMAT it is hard to find out when a school is wrestling and where.

Even south doesn't draw what they used to. Better newspaper coverage, schedule posters, pocket schedules and such you don't see anymore.
There a plenty of local pages in every town and area these schools should be blasting their events.....best thing about the internet and facebook is that its free.

Shout out to Roger Thompson south AD. he post updates of every sport going on in real time and post weekly schedules for every sport.
Lifes tough....Wear a Helmet!


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