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Based on the regional results, the AAA state tournament will have 4 byes this season.

Region 2 at 113.

Region 3 at 106, 220 and 285.

Lets just leave this all as is.

Bearhugger wrote:Based on the regional results, the AAA state tournament will have 4 byes this season.

Region 2 at 113.

Region 3 at 106, 220 and 285.

Lets just leave this all as is.

Blame it on a declining population, leading to a decrease in the number of AAA schools in the state. At this point, arguments against going to an all class state tournament are growing weaker by the day.
Put it simply, people are leaving the state, the population is dwindling, and the only sensible solution (imo) is to combine classes.
At this point, neither AAA, nor AA/A is even close to as tough as AAA was 5-10 years ago.

split have of AA into AAA and the other half of AA into A.......problem solved.

Bearhugger wrote:Based on the regional results, the AAA state tournament will have 4 byes this season.

Region 2 at 113.

Region 3 at 106, 220 and 285.

Lets just leave this all as is.

I think they should let the 5th place guys from the other regions wrestle off to fill the openings
Having two weeks between regions and state gives plenty of time to do it.

This is sad and should never occur in the state tournament. What a black eye on WV wrestling.

WVSSAC, are you guys awake yet?!?!

As I’ve said before, it’s well past time to go to a single class state tournament. 32 man brackets, place 8 instead of 6.
If California can run a single class state tournament , then West Virginia easily can. Based on population , number of wrestlers , and number of teams, it absolutely must happen and happen soon.
Give me 3 good reasons not to. Guarantee there is not anyone that can persuade me otherwise.
It needs to be done for the betterment of West Virginia wrestling!
And then on top of that , implement a duals team state championship as well.
All problems solved.

Watch out for the ringworm!

mscoach64 wrote:split have of AA into AAA and the other half of AA into A.......problem solved.

Best solution so far.

Geoswaff wrote:

mscoach64 wrote:split have of AA into AAA and the other half of AA into A.......problem solved.

Best solution so far.

Good idea, along with many other posts here, but many resist change for this sport to improve in this State.
2 regionals? JVers competing? Etc... The numbers are not what they used to be.

I can see arguments for many of these solutions being solid. I prefer a single state tournament, mainly because it would make our champion a bit more prestigious. Let us all face the facts...in open tournaments when a PA or OH state champ draws a WV state champ, there is rarely the fear of God placed in the challenger. Put all classes in one tournament and get a true champ, we gain some ground on recognition.

I do not mind reclassifying wrestling separate from other sports. Other states do this, and it has success. Maybe call it Div I and Div II for wrestling as opposed to our A, AA, AAA classification.

My last suggestion is simply taking all 29 wrestlers to the state tournament for AAA. You can still wrestle the regionals to get the pairings squared away. This way, we will, at the minimum, have a full round of 16. Those extra rounds can be done on Thursday so the A/AA schedule matches up on Friday.

I am glad to see people are starting to think outside of the box to get this fixed.

Ringworm.. you are absolutely correct!! But some coaches want everyone to be a winner. CA has 750 high schools and only ONE state champion! Yes! I know they have the population but it is a very intensed tournament!
WV can include the back up wrestlers through a special qualifying process just to have the right to wrestle at state.
Everyone is happy!

Bearhugger wrote:Based on the regional results, the AAA state tournament will have 4 byes this season.

Region 2 at 113.

Region 3 at 106, 220 and 285.

Lets just leave this all as is.

To clarify, the AAA Region 3 results only list three 285s. However, the AAA pairings list a 4th place winner for region 3 285. I guess it is three byes instead of four.

This topic was discussed much more last season and no corrective action was implemented. Here we are a year later and the problem has gotten worse.

I applaud Capital, South Charleston and Princeton for having wrestling teams. They simply do not have the community interest and administrative support (at middle school and high school) to build a competitive program anytime soon. While these schools are building their programs, they should not be in the same region.

greencrush wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:Based on the regional results, the AAA state tournament will have 4 byes this season.

Region 2 at 113.

Region 3 at 106, 220 and 285.

Lets just leave this all as is.

Blame it on a declining population, leading to a decrease in the number of AAA schools in the state. At this point, arguments against going to an all class state tournament are growing weaker by the day.
Put it simply, people are leaving the state, the population is dwindling, and the only sensible solution (imo) is to combine classes.
At this point, neither AAA, nor AA/A is even close to as tough as AAA was 5-10 years ago.

I agree with you when it comes to the coalfields and the steel mills regions but Region Two is comprised of the Eastern Panhandle. I was under the impression that population is increasing in Region Two. If I am wrong someone please correct me. I am basing my opinion on the addition of a AAA school in recent years.

ZZChooseTop wrote:

greencrush wrote:

Bearhugger wrote:Based on the regional results, the AAA state tournament will have 4 byes this season.

Region 2 at 113.

Region 3 at 106, 220 and 285.

Lets just leave this all as is.

Blame it on a declining population, leading to a decrease in the number of AAA schools in the state. At this point, arguments against going to an all class state tournament are growing weaker by the day.
Put it simply, people are leaving the state, the population is dwindling, and the only sensible solution (imo) is to combine classes.
At this point, neither AAA, nor AA/A is even close to as tough as AAA was 5-10 years ago.

I agree with you when it comes to the coalfields and the steel mills regions but Region Two is comprised of the Eastern Panhandle. I was under the impression that population is increasing in Region Two. If I am wrong someone please correct me. I am basing my opinion on the addition of a AAA school in recent years.

Population in the Eastern Panhandle is obviously increasing. Interest in wrestling is not. AAA Region 2 has produced a state tournament bye at 113.

The following weight classes only had four wrestlers, thus 100% qualify: 126, 138, 145, 220 and 285.

Six weight classes only needed to be wrestled for pill assignment purposes.

Bearhugger wrote:Based on the regional results, the AAA state tournament will have 4 byes this season.

Region 2 at 113.

Region 3 at 106, 220 and 285.

Lets just leave this all as is.

How could this be?? "A" is supposed to be only schools not filling teams and "watering down wrestling"

Not only do we now have byes at the state tournament, but there are also numerous weight classes that have kids that have won as few as 4 matches on the season qualified while others who would likely be on the podium are forced to watch from the stands.

New Jersey, Cali,and even Kentucky have a One (1) Champion per weight class format for their state tournaments. I believe it's time for change!

Additional slides...

aaacoach26 wrote:Not only do we now have byes at the state tournament, but there are also numerous weight classes that have kids that have won as few as 4 matches on the season qualified while others who would likely be on the podium are forced to watch from the stands.

New Jersey, Cali,and even Kentucky have a One (1) Champion per weight class format for their state tournaments. I believe it's time for change!

I wouldn't compare WV wrestling to those states. California's "small" wrestling schools have 850-1100 students making it fairly easy to field a decent team and gives every school a decent chance to have a few competitive wrestlers in a "one champion" tournament. Many of WVs small wrestling schools can travel to tournaments in a minvan and as a result many are lucky to field a state placer caliber wrestlers every 3 or 4 years and in many cases, even less often. I have a feeling funding for athletic programs is a bit different in California too.

Kentucky has 8 regions and qualify 4 per region. All they are doing is watering down their tournament. I skimmed through the list of qualifiers this year and within the first few pages saw win/loss records of 11-20, 3-0, 2-2, 1-1, 1-2, 4-3, 9-13, 13-25, 15-23, 7-11, 6-15, 3-9, 3-6, 6-17, 11-12...does filling the brackets simply for the sake of filling the brackets make them better?

It is late, so I am not looking right now, but I imagine NJ is much like Cali. Not many small schools and a vastly different funding that levels the playing field.

If everyone is that worked up about a bye at states then I have a simple solution. Less qualifiers and one state champ. Keep the AAA/AA-A designation and each region only qualifies two per weight class and sends them all to states to compete against each other. We still have a 16 man bracket, but every match from round 1 to the championships is a legit, state championship caliber match.

aaacoach26 wrote:Not only do we now have byes at the state tournament, but there are also numerous weight classes that have kids that have won as few as 4 matches on the season qualified while others who would likely be on the podium are forced to watch from the stands.

New Jersey, Cali,and even Kentucky have a One (1) Champion per weight class format for their state tournaments. I believe it's time for change!

I don't know if this affects any of your calculations, but you have Wood county in the North region on the map, but you have the schools listed with the South region schools. It appears you intend for them to be in the North based on later slides.

I'm not trying to take any side in the discussion regarding regionals and states. However, should we all feel somewhat silly by discussing this over and over, year after year, thinking that something of what we say amounts to anything of importance. Does anybody actually know what steps anybody would take to effect a change in the situation? It would appear obviously that discussing it on this forum doesn't have any effect whatsoever. Not that it's wrong or people don't have the right to have the discussion. However does anybody know how to bring about a change with the powers-that-be? To continue to complain about things without addressing this question would seem to be utterly futile. Again, I'm just trying to get information to move things forward.

KDunbar wrote:I'm not trying to take any side in the discussion regarding regionals and states. However, should we all feel somewhat silly by discussing this over and over, year after year, thinking that something of what we say amounts to anything of importance. Does anybody actually know what steps anybody would take to effect a change in the situation? It would appear obviously that discussing it on this forum doesn't have any effect whatsoever. Not that it's wrong or people don't have the right to have the discussion. However does anybody know how to bring about a change with the powers-that-be? To continue to complain about things without addressing this question would seem to be utterly futile. Again, I'm just trying to get information to move things forward.

Coach Stump made a proposal to the WVSSAC, so if you read this coach, perhaps you can give some insight.

aaacoach26 wrote:Not only do we now have byes at the state tournament, but there are also numerous weight classes that have kids that have won as few as 4 matches on the season qualified while others who would likely be on the podium are forced to watch from the stands.

New Jersey, Cali,and even Kentucky have a One (1) Champion per weight class format for their state tournaments. I believe it's time for change!

AAAcoach26 I like your proposal to divide the state. But, and there is always a BUTT; most of the states population from you proposal is one sided to the northern region were the southern region of the state is loosing it population and schools. There is no reason for Region II to have any forfeits. Not with the population growth in the Panhandle and Morgantown. If the powers to be want to build the sport they must start within the youth programs and county school administration. This can't be fixed over night.

1. To put the "small schools in Calfiornia still have 1100 students" statement into perspective. Large high schools in California have over 5000 students. That's a difference of 4000.
2. The difference between Cameron and Cabell Midland? 1965-240= 1725. Far cry from 4k, no?
3. Indy has 628 students and is obviously at better program at this time than Cabell, which has 1965.
BRAXTON has 580 students, and MORGANTOWN has 1808. Which has a better program?
Perhaps Morgantown should be A/AA since their program isn't well supported, nor does it have deep pockets. Its unfair that they have to compete with the likes of Ripley, with their whopping 900 students.
4. I love the proposal by AAA coach, except I would push for 4 regions qualifying 8 wrestlers each. Those regions are huge coach. They sure would be exciting though.

Now this is going to seem like a joke to some , esp. after my other comment, but this is not a joke or trying to stir.

Why does someone not take the WVSSAC to court ?

I have long felt and posted that the WVSSAC is worthless and care nothing about the kids in any sport in our state.

The argument bout how PHS knocked a wrestler out of the state tournament and the judge saying the South wrestler was only a freshman and would have other opportunities clearly applies more with the regional configuration and map than it did back then. Many ranked seniors all across the state will be sitting home cause of their setup. Is this not a perfect class action situation ? Kids are being harmed/deprived of a chance and the court should be able to force them to go to a more, or even all inclusive situation.

If some felt it worthwhile to go to court for 1 kid , Why not for multiple kids ? Each year ?

Again , not stirring , but instead of complaining bout it year after year after year , do something !

I know how to get more people to move to WV to get the population up! Get rid of the cold winters and bring more sunshine to the state!

RealGreco you should try and come for the tournament if you can? If you do look me up.

coach_williams wrote:

aaacoach26 wrote:Not only do we now have byes at the state tournament, but there are also numerous weight classes that have kids that have won as few as 4 matches on the season qualified while others who would likely be on the podium are forced to watch from the stands.

New Jersey, Cali,and even Kentucky have a One (1) Champion per weight class format for their state tournaments. I believe it's time for change!

I wouldn't compare WV wrestling to those states. California's "small" wrestling schools have 850-1100 students making it fairly easy to field a decent team and gives every school a decent chance to have a few competitive wrestlers in a "one champion" tournament. Many of WVs small wrestling schools can travel to tournaments in a minvan and as a result many are lucky to field a state placer caliber wrestlers every 3 or 4 years and in many cases, even less often. I have a feeling funding for athletic programs is a bit different in California too.

Kentucky has 8 regions and qualify 4 per region. All they are doing is watering down their tournament. I skimmed through the list of qualifiers this year and within the first few pages saw win/loss records of 11-20, 3-0, 2-2, 1-1, 1-2, 4-3, 9-13, 13-25, 15-23, 7-11, 6-15, 3-9, 3-6, 6-17, 11-12...does filling the brackets simply for the sake of filling the brackets make them better?

It is late, so I am not looking right now, but I imagine NJ is much like Cali. Not many small schools and a vastly different funding that levels the playing field.

If everyone is that worked up about a bye at states then I have a simple solution. Less qualifiers and one state champ. Keep the AAA/AA-A designation and each region only qualifies two per weight class and sends them all to states to compete against each other. We still have a 16 man bracket, but every match from round 1 to the championships is a legit, state championship caliber match.

I would wager each AAA region, except for maybe Region IV, had at least a dozen wrestlers advance to the state tournament who have losing records. I do not believe it could get much more watered down than our current process of advancing a large number of wrestlers who have losing records, while keeping state tournament placer caliber wrestlers at home due to imbalanced regions.

Gutorone wrote:Now this is going to seem like a joke to some , esp. after my other comment, but this is not a joke or trying to stir.

Why does someone not take the WVSSAC to court ?

I have long felt and posted that the WVSSAC is worthless and care nothing about the kids in any sport in our state.

The argument bout how PHS knocked a wrestler out of the state tournament and the judge saying the South wrestler was only a freshman and would have other opportunities clearly applies more with the regional configuration and map than it did back then. Many ranked seniors all across the state will be sitting home cause of their setup. Is this not a perfect class action situation ? Kids are being harmed/deprived of a chance and the court should be able to force them to go to a more, or even all inclusive situation.

If some felt it worthwhile to go to court for 1 kid , Why not for multiple kids ? Each year ?

Again , not stirring , but instead of complaining bout it year after year after year , do something !

Why don't YOU get a lawyer and run out Rt 47 with him and file a lawsuit? Thanks for volunteering. Great idea!!!

coach_williams wrote:

aaacoach26 wrote:Not only do we now have byes at the state tournament, but there are also numerous weight classes that have kids that have won as few as 4 matches on the season qualified while others who would likely be on the podium are forced to watch from the stands.

New Jersey, Cali,and even Kentucky have a One (1) Champion per weight class format for their state tournaments. I believe it's time for change!

I wouldn't compare WV wrestling to those states. California's "small" wrestling schools have 850-1100 students making it fairly easy to field a decent team and gives every school a decent chance to have a few competitive wrestlers in a "one champion" tournament. Many of WVs small wrestling schools can travel to tournaments in a minvan and as a result many are lucky to field a state placer caliber wrestlers every 3 or 4 years and in many cases, even less often. I have a feeling funding for athletic programs is a bit different in California too.

Kentucky has 8 regions and qualify 4 per region. All they are doing is watering down their tournament. I skimmed through the list of qualifiers this year and within the first few pages saw win/loss records of 11-20, 3-0, 2-2, 1-1, 1-2, 4-3, 9-13, 13-25, 15-23, 7-11, 6-15, 3-9, 3-6, 6-17, 11-12...does filling the brackets simply for the sake of filling the brackets make them better?

It is late, so I am not looking right now, but I imagine NJ is much like Cali. Not many small schools and a vastly different funding that levels the playing field.

If everyone is that worked up about a bye at states then I have a simple solution. Less qualifiers and one state champ. Keep the AAA/AA-A designation and each region only qualifies two per weight class and sends them all to states to compete against each other. We still have a 16 man bracket, but every match from round 1 to the championships is a legit, state championship caliber match.

WV needs to quit worrying or thinking about what other states do and do not do. WV needs to look at the situations at hand and implement corrective actions.

greencrush wrote:1. To put the "small schools in Calfiornia still have 1100 students" statement into perspective. Large high schools in California have over 5000 students. That's a difference of 4000.

My point was more about the ability to field a team. A "small" California school with 1000 wrestlers only needs .2% of their students to wrestle to have a team of 20, while the biggest A school in WV needs almost 5% of their students to wrestle to produce the same sized team.

For that reason, comparing WV to CA when discussing going to a single chanpion is not logical, in my opinion. They simply are not comparable situations.

coach_williams wrote:

greencrush wrote:1. To put the "small schools in Calfiornia still have 1100 students" statement into perspective. Large high schools in California have over 5000 students. That's a difference of 4000.

My point was more about the ability to field a team. A "small" California school with 1000 wrestlers only needs .2% of their students to wrestle to have a team of 20, while the biggest A school in WV needs almost 5% of their students to wrestle to produce the same sized team.

For that reason, comparing WV to CA when discussing going to a single chanpion is not logical, in my opinion. They simply are not comparable situations.

Some of the largest high schools in WV cannot field a full team while small schools like Greenbrier West and Wirt County do or almost do.