Ranking vs Regionals

[coach_williams]

For months now the discussion here has been almost nothing but people worked up over how many wrestlers are ranked in a region vs. how many from that region can qualify for states. There are some valid complaints here and I have no desire to rehash those same complaints for the 437th time.

I just wanted to point out that, while some have become highly upset with me for stating that rankings do not equate to state qualifier, there is reason behind my madness...

1) Rankings are based partly on coaches reporting results from head-to-head match-ups and duals results that are not reported to WVMAt. I can tell you that on most weeks I can count on one hand the number of coaches that go into the "Coaches Only" area and do this.

2) Rankings are based on reported scores. If you take a little time to look I imagine that you will discover that many of the schools/regions with a poor showing in the rankings also have a low number of reported scores.

Go look at the scores reported and compare that to ranked wrestlers. You see a lot of scores reported for Oak Glen, PS, Hampshire, Huntington, Cabell Midland, Ripley, Wheeling, BU, St. Albans, Greenbrier East, John Marshall, Fairmont Senior...and where are a large portion of the ranked wrestlers from???

Then go look for scores from other schools that don't have ranked wrestlers. Admittedly I just skimmed through Jan-Nov 2017, but other than Greenbrier East, I hardly spotted a single report score from Region 3. How can wrestlers from Region 3 be ranked if no scores are reported?

Food for thought...

[guard0544]

For months now the discussion here has been almost nothing but people worked up over how many wrestlers are ranked in a region vs. how many from that region can qualify for states. There are some valid complaints here and I have no desire to rehash those same complaints for the 437th time.

I just wanted to point out that, while some have become highly upset with me for stating that rankings do not equate to state qualifier, there is reason behind my madness...

1) Rankings are based partly on coaches reporting results from head-to-head match-ups and duals results that are not reported to WVMAt. I can tell you that on most weeks I can count on one hand the number of coaches that go into the "Coaches Only" area and do this.

2) Rankings are based on reported scores. If you take a little time to look I imagine that you will discover that many of the schools/regions with a poor showing in the rankings also have a low number of reported scores.

Go look at the scores reported and compare that to ranked wrestlers. You see a lot of scores reported for Oak Glen, PS, Hampshire, Huntington, Cabell Midland, Ripley, Wheeling, BU, St. Albans, Greenbrier East, John Marshall, Fairmont Senior...and where are a large portion of the ranked wrestlers from???

Then go look for scores from other schools that don't have ranked wrestlers. Admittedly I just skimmed through Jan-Nov 2017, but other than Greenbrier East, I hardly spotted a single report score from Region 3. How can wrestlers from Region 3 be ranked if no scores are reported?

Food for thought...

Rankings begin the year based on state placement and/or qualifier the year before. This should benefit all teams, and probably benefits those in weaker regions the most since it's easier to be a qualifier. That's the starting point each year. Typically someone isn't dropping unless someone else beats them or someone ranked above them. Additionally, most teams wrestle other teams throughout the year who do post results, or participate in tournaments where results are posted. While the "they just don't post their results" may on the surface appear like a legit explanation, it's just not supported well when you dig into how the rankings begin each year etc.

[Gator]

I'm for revenue sharing, no rankings, no reporting scores, no regions, unlimited weigh ins, JV wrestlers, girl wrestlers, unlimited buffets, cage matches and I'm a strong supporter of WVSSAC.

That's why I'm often referred to as the.................

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[coach_williams]

Rankings begin the year based on state placement and/or qualifier the year before. This should benefit all teams, and probably benefits those in weaker regions the most since it's easier to be a qualifier. That's the starting point each year. Typically someone isn't dropping unless someone else beats them or someone ranked above them. Additionally, most teams wrestle other teams throughout the year who do post results, or participate in tournaments where results are posted. While the "they just don't post their results" may on the surface appear like a legit explanation, it's just not supported well when you dig into how the rankings begin each year etc.

No doubt it that how rankings start is one aspect, but a lack of reporting scores makes it dang near impossible for a kid to climb into the rankings after the first rankings come out. A kid who was previously JV or a freshman will never see the rankings without reported scores.

[coach_williams]

I'm for revenue sharing, no rankings, no reporting scores, no regions, unlimited weigh ins, JV wrestlers, girl wrestlers, unlimited buffets, cage matches and I'm a strong supporter of WVSSAC.

That's why I'm often referred to as the.................



15171048_1814906698785102_4693903138620929724_n (1).png

You had me at unlimited buffets LOL

[coach999]

Rankings in my opinion are mostly for the fans and wrestlers. Kinda like fairntasy football or something. Really they mean nothing, but it keeps people involved. Something to shoot for. People come out to watch matches and tournaments when they see ranked wrestlers are going to go at it. It's a great advertisement, but that's all it is. We all should relax on the rankings. Plus it gives something for people to talk about. Lol. Just my 2 cents.

[ZZChooseTop]

For months now the discussion here has been almost nothing but people worked up over how many wrestlers are ranked in a region vs. how many from that region can qualify for states. There are some valid complaints here and I have no desire to rehash those same complaints for the 437th time.

I just wanted to point out that, while some have become highly upset with me for stating that rankings do not equate to state qualifier, there is reason behind my madness..

Then go look for scores from other schools that don't have ranked wrestlers. Admittedly I just skimmed through Jan-Nov 2017, but other than Greenbrier East, I hardly spotted a single report score from Region 3.

Food for thought...

I can't imagine anyone being upset with you. You've been a positive asset at the three places that you've been in the last three years. Keep up the good work.

I am probably reading it wrong but I think region 3 results and brackets can be found in the WSAZ results link. Wrestlers (JV and varsity) had a stage to jump into the rankings complete with head to heads and common opponents.

[Bearhugger]

Rankings begin the year based on state placement and/or qualifier the year before. This should benefit all teams, and probably benefits those in weaker regions the most since it's easier to be a qualifier. That's the starting point each year. Typically someone isn't dropping unless someone else beats them or someone ranked above them. Additionally, most teams wrestle other teams throughout the year who do post results, or participate in tournaments where results are posted. While the "they just don't post their results" may on the surface appear like a legit explanation, it's just not supported well when you dig into how the rankings begin each year etc.

No doubt it that how rankings start is one aspect, but a lack of reporting scores makes it dang near impossible for a kid to climb into the rankings after the first rankings come out. A kid who was previously JV or a freshman will never see the rankings without reported scores.

Just why does a given coach not care about posting his team's scores? Posting the scores generate interest in the team. I guess this is another reason why wrestling participation is down. The wrestlers look at the scores and the rankings. They see that their coach doesn't post anything. They see that he doesn't care, so why should they?

[coach_williams]

For months now the discussion here has been almost nothing but people worked up over how many wrestlers are ranked in a region vs. how many from that region can qualify for states. There are some valid complaints here and I have no desire to rehash those same complaints for the 437th time.

I just wanted to point out that, while some have become highly upset with me for stating that rankings do not equate to state qualifier, there is reason behind my madness..

Then go look for scores from other schools that don't have ranked wrestlers. Admittedly I just skimmed through Jan-Nov 2017, but other than Greenbrier East, I hardly spotted a single report score from Region 3.

Food for thought...

I can't imagine anyone being upset with you. You've been a positive asset at the three places that you've been in the last three years. Keep up the good work.

I am probably reading it wrong but I think region 3 results and brackets can be found in the WSAZ results link. Wrestlers (JV and varsity) had a stage to jump into the rankings complete with head to heads and common opponents.

Yeah, I speak my heart and don't filter it much. Some people don't like that. I swear I am a really nice guy in person lol

Yes, they are certainly there. I was speaking more so in a general week-to-week basis. WSAZs don't show up until late in the season. Like I said, I just skimmed, so I could have easily overlooked some reported scores, but there were some programs that are clearly diligent in reporting scores while others are not. I just think that it is unrealistic to use rankings in such a definitive way when there are several variables that influence who gets ranked. If every score from every match was reported I think it is logical that the rankings could look considerably different. I agree that the rankings are a good indicator of who will be on the podium at he end of the year, but that is all they are.

[Gator]

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[Panther_coach]

Old Gator getting feisty in his old age. Needs a seafood transfusion.

[Frank]

I'm for revenue sharing, no rankings, no reporting scores, no regions, unlimited weigh ins, JV wrestlers, girl wrestlers, unlimited buffets, cage matches and I'm a strong supporter of WVSSAC.

That's why I'm often referred to as the.................



15171048_1814906698785102_4693903138620929724_n (1).png

You had me at unlimited buffets LOL

Now that's positive thinking.
I love it

[Gator]

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Usually don't mention this until the week of the state tournament, but.............

[Frank]

No meat on that fish.
The same can't be said about gator.

[Bearhugger]

No meat on that fish.
The same can't be said about gator.

That fish has been water loading.

[Gator]

I'm big boned!

[P.H.D.]

Rankings in my opinion are mostly for the fans and wrestlers. Kinda like fairntasy football or something. Really they mean nothing, but it keeps people involved. Something to shoot for. People come out to watch matches and tournaments when they see ranked wrestlers are going to go at it. It's a great advertisement, but that's all it is. We all should relax on the rankings. Plus it gives something for people to talk about. Lol. Just my 2 cents.

Seeding don't mean anything either then.

[coach_williams]

Rankings in my opinion are mostly for the fans and wrestlers. Kinda like fairntasy football or something. Really they mean nothing, but it keeps people involved. Something to shoot for. People come out to watch matches and tournaments when they see ranked wrestlers are going to go at it. It's a great advertisement, but that's all it is. We all should relax on the rankings. Plus it gives something for people to talk about. Lol. Just my 2 cents.

Seeding don't mean anything either then.

And here we go back down the rabbit hole...

Just for point of reference. Seedings are based on an established criteria and (if done right) every coach is in the room, presenting win/loss records and head-to-head results to make sure the seedings are as accurate of a representation of strength within the weight class as possible. Rankings are based on criteria, opinion and debate and I have yet to see any coaches posting the win/loss record of a wrestler in the "Coaches Only" area.

If rankings and seedings were synonymous then the top 4 ranked wrestlers would always be the top 4 seeded wrestlers at state and would be seeded exactly the way they are ranked.

[aaacoach6]

Admittedly I just skimmed through Jan-Nov 2017, but other than Greenbrier East, I hardly spotted a single report score from Region 3. How can wrestlers from Region 3 be ranked if no scores are reported?

I can assure you all of the results for Shady Spring are there because I submit them before I go to bed after we wrestle out of town to wind down before bed to give the fans that cannot attend updates on how our kids have done and because the wrestlers watch the rankings regardless of if their coaches do or not. Since we have been AAA, then AA/A, then AAA, and now AA/A again over the last 12 years or so I can see how you can forget about us being in Region 3 but I see a lot of Herbert Hoover, Riverside, Independence, Greenbrier West, George Washington, and Woodrow Wilson scores as well just to name a few. Those are both AAA and AA schools so i am not sure which region 3 your are speaking of that has no results posted.
Perhaps you should look at the bracketed tournament reports to find their results after 1/1 because most of region 3 wrestles duals until Christmas break and then begin wrestling bracketed tournaments after January 1.

[coach_williams]

Admittedly I just skimmed through Jan-Nov 2017, but other than Greenbrier East, I hardly spotted a single report score from Region 3. How can wrestlers from Region 3 be ranked if no scores are reported?

I can assure you all of the results for Shady Spring are there because I submit them before I go to bed after we wrestle out of town to wind down before bed to give the fans that cannot attend updates on how our kids have done and because the wrestlers watch the rankings regardless of if their coaches do or not. Since we have been AAA, then AA/A, then AAA, and now AA/A again over the last 12 years or so I can see how you can forget about us being in Region 3 but I see a lot of Herbert Hoover, Riverside, Independence, Greenbrier West, George Washington, and Woodrow Wilson scores as well just to name a few. Those are both AAA and AA schools so i am not sure which region 3 your are speaking of that has no results posted.
Perhaps you should look at the bracketed tournament reports to find their results after 1/1 because most of region 3 wrestles duals until Christmas break and then begin wrestling bracketed tournaments after January 1.

Yeah I know you do coach. I was mainly talking about AAA since that is where the debate regarding ranked wrestlers not making it to states has been focused. You are also one of just a handful of coaches involved in the Coaches Only area on a regular basis.

Like I said, I skimmed, and I just looked at reported scores since Jan 1, but AAA Region 3 doesn't appear to have that many scores reported versus other AAA schools.