WVU vs Missouri

[Bearhugger]

WVU has Missouri next.

Using the November 21st FLO rankings, here is how WVU lines up against their next BIG 12 opponent:

125: WVU #7 vs Miz #14. Cardinale has yet to wrestle a match.

133: Miz HM vs WVU Unranked.

141: Miz #11 vs WVU unranked.

149: Miz #8 vs WVU #22

157: Miz #14 vs WVU Unranked

165: Miz #1 vs WVU #7

174: Miz #9 vs WVU unranked

184: Miz #24 vs WVU HM

197: Miz #4 vs WVU HM

285: Miz #8 vs WVU #19

[Geoswaff]

Anyone know if they are sending any of the wrestlers not starting to an open this weekend.

[aacoach61]

Anyone have any internet links to this dual?I am a Flo member.

Thanks

[Doyablameme?]

Anyone have any internet links to this dual?I am a Flo member.

Thanks

It is listed on Flo as an upcoming event… so I guess it will be on Flo ?

[aacoach61]

Missouri 38 WVU 3

Match Results
125: Peyton Moore (Mizzou) won by fall over Colton Drousias (WVU), [T – 1:16]
133: HM Connor Brown (Mizzou) won by fall over Davin Rhoads (WVU), [T – 4:25]
141: No. 10 Allan Hart (Mizzou) major dec. Jordan Titus (WVU), 11-2
149: No. 8 Brock Mauller (Mizzou) major dec. No. 22 Sam Hillegas (WVU), 10-2
157: No. 13 Jarrett Jacques (Mizzou) dec. Alex Hornfeck (WVU), 4-3
165: No. 1 Keegan O'Toole (Mizzou) dec. No. 7 Peyton Hall (WVU), 3-0
174: No. 9 Peyton Mocco (Mizzou) dec. Scott Joll (WVU), 10-4
184: Sean Harman (Mizzou) won by forfeit
197: (WVU) Austin Cooley dec. Colton Hawks (Mizzou), 3-1
HWT: No. 8 Zach Elam (Mizzou) dec. No. 19 Michael Wolfgram, 6-3

Anyone know why we forfeited 184?

[Bearhugger]

Missouri 38 WVU 3

Match Results
125: Peyton Moore (Mizzou) won by fall over Colton Drousias (WVU), [T – 1:16]
133: HM Connor Brown (Mizzou) won by fall over Davin Rhoads (WVU), [T – 4:25]
141: No. 10 Allan Hart (Mizzou) major dec. Jordan Titus (WVU), 11-2
149: No. 8 Brock Mauller (Mizzou) major dec. No. 22 Sam Hillegas (WVU), 10-2
157: No. 13 Jarrett Jacques (Mizzou) dec. Alex Hornfeck (WVU), 4-3
165: No. 1 Keegan O'Toole (Mizzou) dec. No. 7 Peyton Hall (WVU), 3-0
174: No. 9 Peyton Mocco (Mizzou) dec. Scott Joll (WVU), 10-4
184: Sean Harman (Mizzou) won by forfeit
197: (WVU) Austin Cooley dec. Colton Hawks (Mizzou), 3-1
HWT: No. 8 Zach Elam (Mizzou) dec. No. 19 Michael Wolfgram, 6-3

Anyone know why we forfeited 184?

Missouri's regular 197 is #2 in the nation. He didn't wrestle.

Hall did very good against the nation's #1 at 165.

[JohnK73]

Not sure why Rocky Elam didn’t wrestle, would have liked to see how Cooley faired against him, as I’m sure that’s who he was prepping to wrestle too. No idea why we forfeited at 184, but i thought from 157 on up, all the WV guys wrestled tough and were in their matches, even though the score wasn’t indicative of it. Hall was so close to scoring so many times, hopefully he doesn’t hurt his knees by putting himself in some crazy positions.

[aacoach61]

We have excellent wrestling facilities located a few miles from unquestionably the best high school wrestling conference in the country, the WPIAL.

When are we going to start demanding more than victories over D-2 programs followed by we “wrestled tough” against D-1 competition? At the 5-year point in the “rebuilding” process can we reasonably expect 2-3 All Americans a year, with anything less a disappointment?

[Doyablameme?]

We have excellent wrestling facilities located a few miles from unquestionably the best high school wrestling conference in the country, the WPIAL.

When are we going to start demanding more than victories over D-2 programs followed by we “wrestled tough” against D-1 competition? At the 5-year point in the “rebuilding” process can we reasonably expect 2-3 All Americans a year, with anything less a disappointment?

Agree 100% but if you proclaim that too loudly you will irk the WVU apologist on here.

[Geoswaff]

I do think progress is being made, though I won’t get all “Trust the climb” about it. I will say we are gradually strolling up an incline. We had 6 wrestlers mentioned in the ranking which I believe I was a first for us. It just seems like there is a big drop off between our good kids and our other kids. I know Cardinals has been out and I’m not sure why, probably a body that is torn up after 5 years of collegiate wrestling. The loss against Missouri was disappointing, but I honestly thought we were going to get blanked as we do not match up against them well at all. I think the bigger issue was our performance against Glenville, that was pathetic. We should be shutting out D2 schools every time. I like Coach Flynn, but I liked Coach Henson too. I think we need to give the coaches at least 7-10 years. I also think that progress does not usually occur linearly in sports, it usually happens in spurts.

[Doyablameme?]

I do think progress is being made, though I won’t get all “Trust the climb” about it. I will say we are gradually strolling up an incline. We had 6 wrestlers mentioned in the ranking which I believe I was a first for us. It just seems like there is a big drop off between our good kids and our other kids. I know Cardinals has been out and I’m not sure why, probably a body that is torn up after 5 years of collegiate wrestling. The loss against Missouri was disappointing, but I honestly thought we were going to get blanked as we do not match up against them well at all. I think the bigger issue was our performance against Glenville, that was pathetic. We should be shutting out D2 schools every time. I like Coach Flynn, but I liked Coach Henson too. I think we need to give the coaches at least 7-10 years. I also think that progress does not usually occur linearly in sports, it usually happens in spurts.

7-10 years seems like an extraordinarily loooong time. What is the ultimate goal for the WVU program ? Respectability ? A Big -12 title ? Curious

[Geoswaff]

7-10 years seems like an extraordinarily loooong time. What is the ultimate goal for the WVU program ? Respectability ? A Big -12 title ? Curious

I think respectability with occasional flashes of contention is a good goal in the short term. I feel like stability and continuity in the staff coupled with steady improvement is a better strategic approach to performance than short term volatile gains that you see with a coaching change. To me a better barometer is the strength of recruiting. Flynn gets a solid b+ for recruiting and getting depth and a mediocre C- for recruiting quality and recruit quality is where I think the focus should be. I also think NIL opportunity development is where we could enhance our recruiting capabilities. I’m not an expert so this is just a pure arm chair perspective.

[armyscot0873]

Its kind of hard to recruit against other Big 10 and ACC schools recruiting the same area as WVU. Watch a Big 10/ACC dual and see how that compares to the crowd for a WVU home dual. I really just think there is not much interest locally in college wrestling. I would like to see the amount of donations/NIL money going to the wrestling program. I bet it's not much compared to other schools recruiting Western PA. As for what we expect in results I would say top 25/30 every year with maybe a top 10-15 finish every 5 to 7 years. To me football and basketball are always going to be the attention getters in WV and therefore where the money is going to go. You have to have reasonable expectations and anybody demanding we should be a national contender just has unrealistic expectations.

[Jon Perkins]

Its kind of hard to recruit against other Big 10 and ACC schools recruiting the same area as WVU. Watch a Big 10/ACC dual and see how that compares to the crowd for a WVU home dual. I really just think there is not much interest locally in college wrestling. I would like to see the amount of donations/NIL money going to the wrestling program. I bet it's not much compared to other schools recruiting Western PA. As for what we expect in results I would say top 25/30 every year with maybe a top 10-15 finish every 5 to 7 years. To me football and basketball are always going to be the attention getters in WV and therefore where the money is going to go. You have to have reasonable expectations and anybody demanding we should be a national contender just has unrealistic expectations.

Recruiting is hard enough without having to compete with the likes of Ohio State and Cornell. I honestly believe that there are several factors that go into why WVU can't get more blue-chip recruits, but this post sums up one of the reasons without directly saying the reason. This team simply does not have support. Look no further than the stands at a dual meet and look at the number of us on this forum that talk about the team. Sorry but the twelve of us on here talking about the team is not enough support to make any kind of difference. It just isn't the NCAA teams that have a hard time gaining support, it is everywhere with the high schools as well. Many high school teams have a hard time raising money for trips and uniforms, and many have a hard time even fielding a full team because they lack community and local support. This bears the question; what comes first, a winning team or the support of system for the winning team?

[Bearhugger]

Its kind of hard to recruit against other Big 10 and ACC schools recruiting the same area as WVU. Watch a Big 10/ACC dual and see how that compares to the crowd for a WVU home dual. I really just think there is not much interest locally in college wrestling. I would like to see the amount of donations/NIL money going to the wrestling program. I bet it's not much compared to other schools recruiting Western PA. As for what we expect in results I would say top 25/30 every year with maybe a top 10-15 finish every 5 to 7 years. To me football and basketball are always going to be the attention getters in WV and therefore where the money is going to go. You have to have reasonable expectations and anybody demanding we should be a national contender just has unrealistic expectations.

Recruiting is hard enough without having to compete with the likes of Ohio State and Cornell. I honestly believe that there are several factors that go into why WVU can't get more blue-chip recruits, but this post sums up one of the reasons without directly saying the reason. This team simply does not have support. Look no further than the stands at a dual meet and look at the number of us on this forum that talk about the team. Sorry but the twelve of us on here talking about the team is not enough support to make any kind of difference. It just isn't the NCAA teams that have a hard time gaining support, it is everywhere with the high schools as well. Many high school teams have a hard time raising money for trips and uniforms, and many have a hard time even fielding a full team because they lack community and local support. This bears the question; what comes first, a winning team or the support of system for the winning team?

I have heard much talk praising WVU's facilities. This tells me that the support is there.

Support grows as winning grows. One fan at a time, one win at a time.

It can be summed up in one match. Glenville vs WVU at 133.

WVU's 133s didn't make weight for wrestle offs. WVU didn't have a 133 during the first 2 weeks of competition. Glenville has 4x WV state champion and Dutton Award winner at 133.

When I was driving up I-79 to the WVU/Glenville quad, I was thinking that GQ was going to win. Quiocho was a lean, mean machine at 133. I didn't even have a name of who WVU was going to have. We all know how this turned out.

I am sure WVU has superior facilities as compared to Glenville. However, a 25lb dumbbell weighs 25 pounds everywhere, to include Planet Fitness.

WVU's coaching staff has much more "experience" than Glenville's coach. However, a half nelson is a half nelson everywhere, to include Westside Middle School.

Glenville wins 3 matches against WVU this season. Two were against D1 ranked wrestlers and the third was against a wrestler "from parts unknown".

GQ should be back. Campbell should be back. I am not sure on Houser. I figure Glenville will continue to DEVELOP who they have and pick up a few more new recruits.

I wouldn't be surprised if WVU quits wrestling Glenville.

[Jon Perkins]

WVU does have very nice facilities and they have the full 9.9 scholarships available. That means they have plenty of support from the University, but a program needs much more support than what the university can provide. The very top tier teams are depending on much more funding than the 9.9 scholarships that the university provides for the entire team. The majority of the funding comes from donations to the RTC or the club team. A good example is when Kevin Dresser took over at ISU, he brought in some really good coaches as the assistant coaches that were employed by the university. He then brought in Brent Metcalf as the Volunteer Assistant coach which was paid for by the RTC because he could pay Brent more from the RTC than what the University was willing to pay. Based on what was being said on FLO, Brent Metcalf was making $150k as the Volunteer Assistant coach. Look at the Volunteer Assistant and Club Coach at Penn State, those two guys are not making $25k a year. They are making a lot of money which is all paid for by donations from fans and cooperate donors.

And now with the NIL deals floating around, these college athletes are going to go where they can make the most money. Spenser Lee just said in an interview on FLO that he just bought a house in Iowa City. Now I don't know what his cash flow is like, but I do know that there aren't too many college students that can afford to buy a house, mainly because they are unemployed. So common sense tells me that he is getting a pretty good paycheck from his NIL deals.

These are certainly the extreme cases, but the point is a team has to have a lot more support than what a university can provide. You are correct as far as the more wins a team gets the more support they will gain. This team is far from great and ready to compete with top teams, but the progress is there. This team has been gaining more wins each season. It has been a very slow process but they are making small gains each year.

[Bearhugger]

WVU does have very nice facilities and they have the full 9.9 scholarships available. That means they have plenty of support from the University, but a program needs much more support than what the university can provide. The very top tier teams are depending on much more funding than the 9.9 scholarships that the university provides for the entire team. The majority of the funding comes from donations to the RTC or the club team. A good example is when Kevin Dresser took over at ISU, he brought in some really good coaches as the assistant coaches that were employed by the university. He then brought in Brent Metcalf as the Volunteer Assistant coach which was paid for by the RTC because he could pay Brent more from the RTC than what the University was willing to pay. Based on what was being said on FLO, Brent Metcalf was making $150k as the Volunteer Assistant coach. Look at the Volunteer Assistant and Club Coach at Penn State, those two guys are not making $25k a year. They are making a lot of money which is all paid for by donations from fans and cooperate donors.

And now with the NIL deals floating around, these college athletes are going to go where they can make the most money. Spenser Lee just said in an interview on FLO that he just bought a house in Iowa City. Now I don't know what his cash flow is like, but I do know that there aren't too many college students that can afford to buy a house, mainly because they are unemployed. So common sense tells me that he is getting a pretty good paycheck from his NIL deals.

These are certainly the extreme cases, but the point is a team has to have a lot more support than what a university can provide. You are correct as far as the more wins a team gets the more support they will gain. This team is far from great and ready to compete with top teams, but the progress is there. This team has been gaining more wins each season. It has been a very slow process but they are making small gains each year.

The WVU Community, both of us included, should forget about Ohio State, Penn State, Iowa. I never mention those guys.

Let's focus on shutting out Glenville next time.

Let's beat Ohio University this time around.

When Flynn walked in, he brought two small coaches. Many folks said "who are the big men going to wrestle with"? In four full seasons, WVU is on their SECOND big man coach. Their two ranked wrestlers who lost to Glenville were big men. The first "big coach" has resurfaced at Ohio University where 4x WV State Champion and Dutton Award winner Derek Raike is chilling.

Coaches' salaries, wrestlers' houses, etc, etc has nothing to do with an entire weight class not making weight.

As for slow gains, here is a story. I knew a guy that was 475 pounds. His doctor told him he needed to lose weight. The guy made slow gains and lost one pound a month. He lost 12 pounds in the first year. He died.

As for all this NIL business, it is something new. The other programs have already passed up WVU in this category also.

[mscoach57]

In a previous post Jon Perkins said

"So playing sports in high school was not much of option for me because I did not have a set of parents that provided private welfare, they only provided what parents are obligated to provide, things like food, shelter, and limited clothing and instilled in me a good work ethic."

From the sounds of it he resents that his upbringing prevented him from living out his athletic dreams. I am truly sorry for him. After his revelation I now better understand his resentment toward men like Spencer Lee who received "private welfare" from parents and is now receiving additional "welfare" from the University of Iowa and NIL.

As for the ability of an unemployed athlete to buy a house here are the approximate numbers:

WVU Tuition
In State $8,976
Out of State $25,320

Room $8,700
Meals $5,700
Cost of Attendance Stipend $4,000

Tuition is provided regardless of in or out of state status. So looking at room, board, & cost of attendance stipend, a full ride athlete at WVU will receive approximately $2,000 per month ($18,400 divided by 9 month school year). That's all WVU money, no money from NIL, no private welfare from parents. It is conceivable that, with a co-signer (is that parental welfare too?), an athlete who is enterprising enough to round up a couple of friends who want cheap rent, could buy a house.


Back to the thread

WVU is better this year than last. We won 1 in conference dual last season. We can't fall off the floor.

[Jon Perkins]

In a previous post Jon Perkins said

"So playing sports in high school was not much of option for me because I did not have a set of parents that provided private welfare, they only provided what parents are obligated to provide, things like food, shelter, and limited clothing and instilled in me a good work ethic."

From the sounds of it he resents that his upbringing prevented him from living out his athletic dreams. I am truly sorry for him. After his revelation I now better understand his resentment toward men like Spencer Lee who received "private welfare" from parents and is now receiving additional "welfare" from the University of Iowa and NIL.

As for the ability of an unemployed athlete to buy a house here are the approximate numbers:

WVU Tuition
In State $8,976
Out of State $25,320

Room $8,700
Meals $5,700
Cost of Attendance Stipend $4,000

Tuition is provided regardless of in or out of state status. So looking at room, board, & cost of attendance stipend, a full ride athlete at WVU will receive approximately $2,000 per month ($18,400 divided by 9 month school year). That's all WVU money, no money from NIL, no private welfare from parents. It is conceivable that, with a co-signer (is that parental welfare too?), an athlete who is enterprising enough to round up a couple of friends who want cheap rent, could buy a house.


Back to the thread

WVU is better this year than last. We won 1 in conference dual last season. We can't fall off the floor.

Who said that Jon Perkins had any athletic aspirations? I can assure you that if I did, I would have made that happen. I was focused on a career and it's worked out for me. As far as Spencer Lee, I don't even know him and certainly have no resentment towards him. If he figured out a way to buy a house that is great, but he is the first college student I have ever heard of buying a house. Frankly, I could care less where his money comes from, my scenario was just as hypothetical as yours. FYI: I quit making my house payments a few years ago but when I was making monthly payments to the bank you had to make house payments for 12 months per year (not 9 months out of the year) so that brings your number down to an average of $1,530 per month and the bank didn't care if you had friends renting rooms, they only cared about your monthly income.

I have no resentment of my upbringing, and for you to say that is an insult to my parents. Is that what your intent is? Are you wanting to insult my parents for raising their children to have a good work ethic and to become independent? In fact, I am quite proud of my up bringing and I have made my own way with little financial help from my parents. It was quite the opposite to the sounds of someone like you. You sound like someone who focused on athletics so you can live out your athletic dreams through your children. My parents taught me to make my own path and took no credit for successes or failures along the way, yet they were there for advice and support. They also taught me to never be coward and hide behind screens names when you insult someone.

[Doyablameme?]

Nothing will change until the University administration decides to make WVU wrestling a higher priority. Also, there are not enough truly blue chip prospects to go around for WVU to land a significant amount of prospects to be competitive. NIL is the wild Wild West, thus causing greater disparity between the “haves” and “ have nots”.
WVU is a “have not”. A new coach will make very little difference now or 2-3 years from now.

[Jon Perkins]

Nothing will change until the University administration decides to make WVU wrestling a higher priority. Also, there are not enough truly blue chip prospects to go around for WVU to land a significant amount of prospects to be competitive. NIL is the wild Wild West, thus causing greater disparity between the “haves” and “ have nots”.
WVU is a “have not”. A new coach will make very little difference now or 2-3 years from now.

This is a very good way of cutting through the BS to say what everyone else is trying to.

[armyscot0873]

I agree that WVU should probably shut out a division II team but there are some great wrestlers at the division II level. I do have a question about GC. I think he won the state at 160 his senior year. If I am correct what weight was he recruited at to Glenville State? I'm not sure how any coach would know that a 4 time state champ had the ability or dedication to get down to 133. I was shocked when I saw his name at 133. This is a place where Flynn should see if there is any desire by GC to enter the transfer portal to move up to division 1. Maybe GC has interest.

[Bearhugger]

I agree that WVU should probably shut out a division II team but there are some great wrestlers at the division II level. I do have a question about GC. I think he won the state at 160 his senior year. If I am correct what weight was he recruited at to Glenville State? I'm not sure how any coach would know that a 4 time state champ had the ability or dedication to get down to 133. I was shocked when I saw his name at 133. This is a place where Flynn should see if there is any desire by GC to enter the transfer portal to move up to division 1. Maybe GC has interest.

You are spot on!!!! There are plenty of Axe Murderers at D2. I figure Cole Laya of East Fairmont could have helped WVU.

Lets not forget Parkersburg South's Luke Martin. He won a D2 National Title. He could have helped WVU. Wait, Luke was at WVU a season before winning the D2 National title.

GQ needs to do what is best for GQ. WVU needs to work the transfer portal and find somebody that can make weight and beat GQ next season.

[Shaun]

Do you guys think recruits, or their parents would jump on this forum and see how negative a lot of you guys are towards the team and the coaches and think twice about coming? Think that helps to bring in those TOP 20 kids? No, they want people excited about the school, coaches and there soon to be teammates!

I'm just talking from having had a top 20 kid that committed to WVU and how excited he was to get down there and work with coaching staff, because these coaches have been part of a great program (s) and Coach Flynn was the leader there.

All I'm saying is, be excited for the guys and the coaches, start promoting the program whenever you get a chance! The shift is coming, and you can see it on how they competed last weekend!

Let's Go!!!!!

[JohnK73]

Is it possible that Titus was expected and recruited to be the 133 lber, but can no longer make the weight this year?

[Letsgooo]

Titus is a tiny 141.

If Vtech and NC state can build winning teams than we should be able to.
Going to have to invest in the club team.

[Letsgooo]

Hall seems to be getting closer and closer to O’Toole. You know when those two get together that it’s going to be an exciting scrambling contest.